Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:30:22 PM1. To disrupt and generate turnovers.
2. 5 out motion.  Screens, rolls, ghost screens, same offense as last season, though with pick and pops vs pick and rolls with Oso
3.  Stevie.  Ben. Royce.
4. See 2 and 1.  The defense is picking MU up that far out, just as MU picks up 40 feet out on offense.
5. Stretch 5.  5 out motion. Pick, roll/pop, dribble hand offs.  There will nearly never be a post up.

Re #3: Ben has zero rebounds these past 2 games, much less an offensive rebound.

5 offensive rebounds, three were team rebounds (knocked out of bounds) compared to 21 for them. Zuby had 6 himself. 16-5 in second chance points. There's your ballgame

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 04, 2025, 08:27:57 PMWe need a true post presence. I think Royce is clearly our best player in that area. Would like to see him get more looks down there.

If it has to come at the expense of Joplin until he wakes up, so be it.

Royce has a high ceiling. Wouldn't mind seeing his minutes increase. We don't get any rebounds anyway so no harm in going smaller and I think he'd be just fine on D now.

Jop and Benny had 2 total rebounds.  Chase had 8, Zaide 6. 

When you lose the rebounding battle by 22 you can't really blame anyone but yourself.

StJ shot 18% from 3 and 54% from the line and Marquette still found a way to lose.

Unfortunately, this squad finds a new way to lose one night after the next as of late
It's kind of what happens when you are built on senior leadership and said leadership no shows, is in a funk, or both.

Shaka has his work cut out for him

Quote from: Jockey on February 04, 2025, 08:29:18 PMI agree SOS. Too bad he was the only starter to do so.

It was evident Chase had the body for that physicality. Everyone else looked a bit overmatched physically. They battled though. Everything is hard when key guys seem to have lost offensive confidence and consistency. 

Watched game late.  Watched first half and about first 5 minutes of 2nd...that was enough to see we weren't going to win. Surprised the final score was that close so kudos to the team for that I guess. 

Not really surprised at the bitching about the refs...the calls in the first were pretty fair and the crowd was really on them so would have expected that we got a worse whistle in the 2nd.

Quote from: DoctorV on February 04, 2025, 08:42:29 PMWhen you lose the rebounding battle by 22 you can't really blame anyone but yourself.

StJ shot 18% from 3 and 54% from the line and Marquette still found a way to lose.

Unfortunately, this squad finds a new way to lose one night after the next as of late
It's kind of what happens when you are built on senior leadership and said leadership no shows, is in a funk, or both.

Shaka has his work cut out for him

Well said Dr.V. 

MU is always in foul trouble, almost every single game, it's Shaka's defensive approach and always has been.  It is also SJU and Pitino's scheme, therefore the over aggressiveness was there to watch.  MU made too many more obvious, less disciplined ones, especially Kam on two occasions.  Shaka the "Maestro" made a blunder keeping Kam in game with two fouls, three minutes left in half.  It was a one point game and no need to have him on the court.

Rebounding stats were unreal.  SJU 50. MU 28.  SJU had 21 offensive, with MU having 5, three of which were classified as "team", meaning Owens and Lowery were only ones credited. 

Ben (NBA bound) Gold has two points in last three games. Zero rebounds in last two and missed a crucial one and one with MU down three and two minutes to go.  He also got beat many times trying to catch Zuby on fast breaks. He is also 1 for 9 on his last three attempts.  Many can criticize Joplin's play, but Gold is right along in this stretch.

Didn't see the "Tre showed up" thing.  He came in four minutes in game as usual for Mitchell.  Immediately fouled, then a turnover, then banked in a prayer top of key three, then another foul.  Sat after that foul and hardly played rest of game unless to cover for Kam playing defense only after Kam's #4.  Hope Lowery can take Norman's six minutes a game going forward. Props to him and Parham, they were real good tonight and hope it continues.

If SJU could shoot the three at an even reasonable rate, they could be or might still be, a top 10 team.  Just loaded with athletic, quick and defensive players, along with a polished center in the middle. 

Hoping for better effort next game to stop the streak and start a new one, but Shaka going to have to adjust something, somehow. 

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 07:58:23 PM1.  Kam, ewwwwwww.  Just dumb. 
2.  Stevie, Ben, Joplin, ewwwwww.
3.  If you have watched SJU at MSG this season, you know that they are next level physical and are rewarded for it by the officials.  They feed the crowd and then the crowd feeds them.
4.  How about that bench? Zaide, Tre, Royce showed up.
5. If the bench tonight is the new normal, MU's ceiling just got higher. 
6. Chase can run the point next season.
7.  Rebounding.  More ewww.  See: SJU
at MSG.
8. Old school Big East war.
9. MU never folded.  'Fans' questioning MU's toughness are morons.
10. Taken in isolation, helluva game, helluva battle.  11 v 12, toe to toe.
11. Taken back to back with UConn, painful. Had looks, had chances, alas.

4. Tre is just a guy. Stop making him out to be more than he is.
Solid defender. Terrible 3 point shooter. Terrible FT shooter.

Zaide had a career night....great rebounding tonight.
Royce is on his way to being a fantastic BE player.......
Tre.......ok whatever

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 04, 2025, 08:43:45 PMIt was evident Chase had the body for that physicality. Everyone else looked a bit overmatched physically. They battled though. Everything is hard when key guys seem to have lost offensive confidence and consistency. 

It's also a mentality.  There is playing with confidence and force vs being timid and afraid to make mistakes.

Quote from: We R Final Four on February 04, 2025, 08:47:34 PM4. Tre is just a guy. Stop making him out to be more than he is.
Solid defender. Terrible 3 point shooter. Terrible FT shooter.

Zaide had a career night....great rebounding tonight.
Royce is on his way to being a fantastic BE player.......
Tre.......ok whatever

We disagree.  OK, whatever.

Stevie is the heart and soul of our team.  When he doesn't create energy and offense from his defense we generally struggle.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:20:45 PMYou didn't think the effort was there?  What the f*ck were you watching?

Right!? Effort is the last thing that is an issue with this team. Rebounding. Poor Shooting lately. Kam floundering from a shoe in AA to a guy that may not make BE 1st team. Jop hasn't shot well. Free throw shooting has been terrible lately. The team really hasn't looked good for weeks at this point. We were very lucky to be 9-1 narrowing escaping losses @X, @Depaul and vs. Gtown.

Need Kam and Jop to be much better. Not expecting a win @Creighton. Hopefully can get right after that and change the momentum. 

Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:47:46 PMIt's also a mentality.  There is playing with confidence and force vs being timid and afraid to make mistakes.

This is my biggest problem. Jop, Kam, Stevie all had chances to take good shots and just looked for a passing outlet. Which oftentimes led to bad possessions. Don't know if foul trouble played a part in it, but it was an issue.

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:36:25 PMMy expectations were 24-25 regular season wins, second weekend.  I have seen nothing that changes them.

Again, I said resetting HOPES, not expectations.

The team that beat Maryland, Wisconsin, and Purdue while several conference teams struggled in the OOC raised hopes. But several of the Conference teams have improved over the course of the season while MU has not. Based on the conference games it's hard to make an argument that MU is better than Xavier.

I think it is pretty clear that Kam is pressing and really feeling pressure.

The good news is that the rest of the guys have done their part for a good portion of the last month or so. He's also capable of finding confidence again...but it seems pretty clear he's got some mental stuff going on shouldering the load (or feeling like he has to).

The pattern offensively is so predictable. High ball screen, which either gets refused or turns into a slip, the screener hardly ever making contact. Drive, dead end, kick out, miss a three or a highly contested shot at the hoop.

Shaka needs to get more hands on and call out some set actions, like the zone set against Butler that got a dunker spot layup. We're the easiest team in the country to guard right now. Can't shoot for crap, 3 guys are stationary for most of the possession, and don't get many offensive boards. They have to get some motion back into this. It's killing them right now.

Our guys played their hearts out in an extremely hostile environment. They fell short but they are still our guys and I am proud of them

Quote from: nyg on February 04, 2025, 08:47:08 PMMU is always in foul trouble, almost every single game, it's Shaka's defensive approach and always has been.  It is also SJU and Pitino's scheme, therefore the over aggressiveness was there to watch.  MU made too many more obvious, less disciplined ones, especially Kam on two occasions.  Shaka the "Maestro" made a blunder keeping Kam in game with two fouls, three minutes left in half.  It was a one point game and no need to have him on the court.

Rebounding stats were unreal.  SJU 50. MU 28.  SJU had 21 offensive, with MU having 5, three of which were classified as "team", meaning Owens and Lowery were only ones credited. 

Ben (NBA bound) Gold has two points in last three games. Zero rebounds in last two and missed a crucial one and one with MU down three and two minutes to go.  He also got beat many times trying to catch Zuby on fast breaks. He is also 1 for 9 on his last three attempts.  Many can criticize Joplin's play, but Gold is right along in this stretch.

Didn't see the "Tre showed up" thing.  He came in four minutes in game as usual for Mitchell.  Immediately fouled, then a turnover, then banked in a prayer top of key three, then another foul.  Sat after that foul and hardly played rest of game unless to cover for Kam playing defense only after Kam's #4.  Hope Lowery can take Norman's six minutes a game going forward. Props to him and Parham, they were real good tonight and hope it continues.

If SJU could shoot the three at an even reasonable rate, they could be or might still be, a top 10 team.  Just loaded with athletic, quick and defensive players, along with a polished center in the middle. 

Hoping for better effort next game to stop the streak and start a new one, but Shaka going to have to adjust something, somehow. 

Hey, welcome back! 

Quote from: MUfan12 on February 04, 2025, 08:59:32 PMThe pattern offensively is so predictable. High ball screen, which either gets refused or turns into a slip, the screener hardly ever making contact. Drive, dead end, kick out, miss a three or a highly contested shot at the hoop.

Shaka needs to get more hands on and call out some set actions, like the zone set against Butler that got a dunker spot layup. We're the easiest team in the country to guard right now. Can't shoot for crap, 3 guys are stationary for most of the possession, and don't get many offensive boards. They have to get some motion back into this. It's killing them right now.

Yep, the lack of motion and passing compared to the last couple seasons is quite striking.

Quote from: wisblue on February 04, 2025, 08:56:41 PMAgain, I said resetting HOPES, not expectations.

The team that beat Maryland, Wisconsin, and Purdue while several conference teams struggled in the OOC raised hopes. But several of the Conference teams have improved over the course of the season while MU has not. Based on the conference games it's hard to make an argument that MU is better than Xavier.

The team that went 3-0 vs the Big10 has been MIA for weeks.  We are a gigantic mess on offense right now and I don't think it's going to be an easy fix, if it even can be fixed.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:20:45 PMYou didn't think the effort was there?  What the f*ck were you watching?

Unnecessary. And, offensive rebounding, fouling, IQ lapses. I equate that to effort, perhaps that is my mistake.

Chase, Zaide, Royce, massive effort.

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 09:01:25 PMHey, welcome back! 

Just a quick one to keep you in check with Gold and don't start with Norman now.....

Remember, you can't critique any MU players on this board or you'll get crucified.

Team's shooting struggles started real bad beginning second half of Depaul game.  Went 1 for 14 from three for 19:15 minutes, then MU got bailed out by threes from Kam with 45 seconds left and then Ross with six seconds left. Since then, brutal.  But that's Shaka's offensive approach with the three ball. Coincide that with stupid fouls, rebounding deficencies and very lazy passing, recipe for some disasters. Hopefully can make some adjustments to start a new streak.

Later......

Hope Shaka gets the players ready

Quote from: nyg on February 04, 2025, 09:13:09 PMJust a quick one to keep you in check with Gold and don't start with Norman now.....

Remember, you can't critique any MU players on this board or you'll get crucified.

Team's shooting struggles started real bad beginning second half of Depaul game.  Went 1 for 14 from three for 19:15 minutes, then MU got bailed out by threes from Kam with 45 seconds left and then Ross with six seconds left. Since then, brutal.  But that's Shaka's offensive approach with the three ball. Coincide that with stupid fouls, rebounding deficencies and very lazy passing, recipe for some disasters. Hopefully can make some adjustments to start a new streak.

Later......

Hope Shaka gets the players

I am glad you came back.  And you are mistaken.  Criticizing MU players is the current zeitgeist, the current hive mind. So is criticizing the refs.   It is a scoop post loss tradition.  This year it is a post win tradition, too.  And, man, you should read the game threads.

So, to say that you can't criticize MU players is kind of a weak take. 

Stick around.