I always hope for a Fatts Russell career from Sean.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:28:56 AMHere's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.

James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.

Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.

Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.

He may have a similar game to James, but he's not as good as James.

Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 10:31:42 AMHe may have a similar game to James, but he's not as good as James.

You are correct. He's not...but James got seemingly worse every year of his career. Sean has the potential to do the opposite.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:28:56 AMHere's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.

James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.

Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.

Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.

They're sized similarly and shoot at a similar clip from 3, but that is probably where the comparisons should end.  Dom was a probably draft pick if he entered the draft after his freshman year.  He could get to the hoop with ease.  He averaged 15 5 and 4 that year and was BE ROY.  Dom could do everything but grow three inches and shoot.  Sean isn't Dominic James.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:28:56 AMHere's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.

James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.

Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.

Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.

What did you think people might be misreading?

Dominic James averaged 15.3 points and 5.4 assists per game as a freshman.  He was a way, way better player than Sean Jones has shown any ability to be, not to mention nobody knows how Sean will return from a serious injury.

Saying Sean is Dominic James because both stink at shooting is like saying AJ Green is Setph Curry because are 43% career 3 point shooters.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:33:48 AMYou are correct. He's not...but James got seemingly worse every year of his career. Sean has the potential to do the opposite.

Dominic got worse every year only if you don't really understand basketball.  His defense was Stevie Mitchell good his junior and senior years.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:28:56 AMHere's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.

James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.

Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.

Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.

I mean, Dom had a 33% assist rate as a freshman vs a 18% to rate. Sean was 14/21. You can call it position less but our other ball handlers the past two years have insane assist rates. Sean is just an extremely limited offensive player so far. Just because one of his many limitations (3%) is similar to Dom's Achilles heel doesn't make them similar players.

Quote from: withoutbias on January 09, 2025, 10:40:35 AMWhat did you think people might be misreading?

Dominic James averaged 15.3 points and 5.4 assists per game as a freshman.  He was a way, way better player than Sean Jones has shown any ability to be, not to mention nobody knows how Sean will return from a serious injury.

Saying Sean is Dominic James because both stink at shooting is like saying AJ Green is Setph Curry because are 43% career 3 point shooters.

Dominic got worse every year only if you don't really understand basketball.  His defense was Stevie Mitchell good his junior and senior years.

Dominic James is probably in my Top 5 of favorite MU players. I know exactly what he was. Defense was elite but he got worse offensively every year.

Aside from being on the receiving end of an alley oop...my point is that Sean can do all of what Dominic did.

I think a lot of people undersell a lot of players on our roster, so I like to hit the other side of the argument. Reality is that they are probably always somewhere in between extremes.

Yeah Dominic did NOT get worse. He scored less. As a freshman he had Steve Novak as a proven scorer with experience. As he became surrounded by better scorers, McNeal, Matthews and later on Hayward, he didn't need to score for the team to have success.

He came in as a highly polished freshman. He didn't grow like other players, but that's because his starting point was so high.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:51:53 AMDominic James is probably in my Top 5 of favorite MU players. I know exactly what he was. Defense was elite but he got worse offensively every year.

No he didn't. Stop with this.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:51:53 AMAside from being on the receiving end of an alley oop...my point is that Sean can do all of what Dominic did.

No he can't. At least he hasn't shown yet that he can.

Jesus...what are we doing here?

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:51:53 AMI think a lot of people undersell a lot of players on our roster, so I like to hit the other side of the argument. Reality is that they are probably always somewhere in between extremes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this suggest that you recognize that your position is extreme?

IMO no one is underselling Sean by saying that he's not as good (and likely will never be as good), as Dom. He's an undersized guard that has not shown the ability to shoot the ball very well and is coming off of a major injury. Saying that he's a question mark moving forward seems very level headed and not at all extreme.

Quote from: Its DJOver on January 09, 2025, 10:59:02 AMCorrect me if I'm wrong, but this suggest that you recognize that your position is extreme?

IMO no one is underselling Sean by saying that he's not as good (and likely will never be as good), as Dom. He's an undersized guard that has not shown the ability to shoot the ball very well and is coming off of a major injury. Saying that he's a question mark moving forward seems very level headed and not at all extreme.

Yes I recognize it is extreme. I think people undersell his abilities and value to this team...before I even mentioned Dominic James.

I mentioned Dominic James because I think Sean plays that kind of game and can have that impact to this team. He's damn good.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 11:07:59 AMYes I recognize it is extreme. I think people undersell his abilities and value to this team...before I even mentioned Dominic James.

I mentioned Dominic James because I think Sean plays that kind of game and can have that impact to this team. He's damn good.

And I (and many others) think you are overselling his abilities because he has not shown any evidence that he can have a Dominic James-type impact on this team.

I honestly hope you are right, but I just don't see it.

Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 10:54:11 AMNo he didn't. Stop with this.


No he can't. At least he hasn't shown yet that he can.

Jesus...what are we doing here?

Dominic shot 42% from the field, 28% from 3, and 46% from the free throw line in his Senior season.

He had a career worst 0.4 Offensive Win Shares with his 2nd worst True Shooting Percentage leading to a near 7% dip in usage from his Freshman season...and yet I would agree that his impact was irreplaceable.

Sean's offensive numbers didn't pop off the charts either, but there was a reason Shaka had him on the court late in many of our Big games to start last season before he got injured. Impact guard.

Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 11:13:05 AMAnd I (and many others) think you are overselling his abilities because he has not shown any evidence that he can have a Dominic James-type impact on this team.

I honestly hope you are right, but I just don't see it.

Fair enough!

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 11:07:59 AMYes I recognize it is extreme.

Seems like you're just intentionally stirring the pot with extreme opinions, but if that works for you, go for it. Just be prepared to defend them, because you're going to have to.

Hope you're right about Sean, but very much think you are not.

Quote from: Its DJOver on January 09, 2025, 11:41:32 AMSeems like you're just intentionally stirring the pot with extreme opinions, but if that works for you, go for it. Just be prepared to defend them, because you're going to have to.

Hope you're right about Sean, but very much think you are not.

I'm not stirring the pot. I just think Sean Jones is really good and extremely impactful.

It will work itself out.  Through offseason and preseason  work, a 5th starter will emerge.

The biggest difference will be that Sean will more than likely hit the portal in the off season, while Dom was a 4-year player...and the real question will be can Nigel James have nearly as good a freshmen year as Dominic James?

Quote from: PJDunn on January 09, 2025, 01:41:33 PMThe biggest difference will be that Sean will more than likely hit the portal in the off season, while Dom was a 4-year player...and the real question will be can Nigel James have nearly as good a freshmen year as Dominic James?

Why would Sean hit the portal in the off season?

Quote from: PJDunn on January 09, 2025, 01:41:33 PMThe biggest difference will be that Sean will more than likely hit the portal in the off season, while Dom was a 4-year player...and the real question will be can Nigel James have nearly as good a freshmen year as Dominic James?

Huh? Given established precedent of playing upperclassmen I'd say it's more likely we lose someone recruited to be the PG their jr year. Like say Tre

Starters next year would've been sr chase Ben Sean jr Tre and zaide then following year seniors Tre zaide jr parham owens Cardin or Al now someone's pushed out for that year because Sean has an extra one.

Sean/tre/DO
Zaide
Royce
Al/Caedin

Maybe caedin sticks and is cool splitting time as a 5 but Al has more upside IMO. Zaide and Royce seem like locks that leaves 2 spots for a super senior a senior who was ranked in HS and a jr who was ranked in HS. That's a lot of ego to manage for 2 spots.

Quote from: PJDunn on January 09, 2025, 01:41:33 PMThe biggest difference will be that Sean will more than likely hit the portal in the off season, while Dom was a 4-year player...and the real question will be can Nigel James have nearly as good a freshmen year as Dominic James?

More than likely? What?

Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 09, 2025, 02:07:14 PMHuh? Given established precedent of playing upperclassmen I'd say it's more likely we lose someone recruited to be the PG their jr year. Like say Tre

Starters next year would've been sr chase Ben Sean jr Tre and zaide then following year seniors Tre zaide jr parham owens Cardin or Al now someone's pushed out for that year because Sean has an extra one.

Sean/tre/DO
Zaide
Royce
Al/Caedin

Maybe caedin sticks and is cool splitting time as a 5 but Al has more upside IMO. Zaide and Royce seem like locks that leaves 2 spots for a super senior a senior who was ranked in HS and a jr who was ranked in HS. That's a lot of ego to manage for 2 spots.

Sean (Jr.)
Chase (Sr.)
Zaide (Jr.)
Royce (So.)
Ben (Sr.)
---
Norman (Jr.)
Amadou (So.)
Hamilton (So.)
Owens (So.)
Clark (Fr.)
James (Fr.)
Stevens (Fr.)
Militec (Fr.)
Phillips (Fr.)

Sean/Nigel
Chase/Tre/Stevens
Zaide/Owens/Miletic/Phillips
Royce/Amadou
Ben/Hamilton/Clark

I know people have pushed back on Phillips being a Redshirt, but seems like a pretty decent bet that one of the Freshman will. They have 3 redshirts this year which leaves us with 5 Freshman next year and Phillips position is arguably the deepest on the roster.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 02:36:04 PMSean (Jr.)
Chase (Sr.)
Zaide (Jr.)
Royce (So.)
Ben (Sr.)
---
Norman (Jr.)
Amadou (So.)
Hamilton (So.)
Owens (So.)
Clark (Fr.)
James (Fr.)
Stevens (Fr.)
Militec (Fr.)
Phillips (Fr.)

Sean/Nigel
Chase/Tre/Stevens
Zaide/Owens/Miletic/Phillips
Royce/Amadou
Ben/Hamilton/Clark

I know people have pushed back on Phillips being a Redshirt, but seems like a pretty decent bet that one of the Freshman will. They have 3 redshirts this year which leaves us with 5 Freshman next year and Phillips position is arguably the deepest on the roster.

Yea

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 02:36:04 PMSean (Jr.)
Chase (Sr.)
Zaide (Jr.)
Royce (So.)
Ben (Sr.)
---
Norman (Jr.)
Amadou (So.)
Hamilton (So.)
Owens (So.)
Clark (Fr.)
James (Fr.)
Stevens (Fr.)
Militec (Fr.)
Phillips (Fr.)

Sean/Nigel
Chase/Tre/Stevens
Zaide/Owens/Miletic/Phillips
Royce/Amadou
Ben/Hamilton/Clark

I know people have pushed back on Phillips being a Redshirt, but seems like a pretty decent bet that one of the Freshman will. They have 3 redshirts this year which leaves us with 5 Freshman next year and Phillips position is arguably the deepest on the roster.

Yeah next years not bad it's the following I question

Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 09, 2025, 02:07:14 PMHuh? Given established precedent of playing upperclassmen I'd say it's more likely we lose someone recruited to be the PG their jr year. Like say Tre

Starters next year would've been sr chase Ben Sean jr Tre and zaide then following year seniors Tre zaide jr parham owens Cardin or Al now someone's pushed out for that year because Sean has an extra one.

Sean/tre/DO
Zaide
Royce
Al/Caedin

Maybe caedin sticks and is cool splitting time as a 5 but Al has more upside IMO. Zaide and Royce seem like locks that leaves 2 spots for a super senior a senior who was ranked in HS and a jr who was ranked in HS. That's a lot of ego to manage for 2 spots.

Al is not a 5.

Starting to worry about 2028