Quote from: NCMUFan on November 14, 2024, 04:47:24 PMIMO Joplin is a better shooter than Gold.
Gold does not have much arch on his shot also seems to be rushing.

I'd agree. You look back at his misses and makes and his makes almost always come when he's square to the hoop and set up to shoot. On his misses he's usually on his heels and fading a bit. Gotta correct those mechanics.

Jop I think is the better shooter or at least has higher potential with his shooting. Especially when contested.

Gold is more athletic and quicker.

But I do think they are similar players at this stage.

Joplin shot 40% from 3 over the course of an entire season and impressed Big East coaches enough to be selected as the best player off the bench player the whole conference.

Quote from: MU82 on November 14, 2024, 06:32:36 PMJoplin shot 40% from 3 over the course of an entire season and impressed Big East coaches enough to be selected as the best player off the bench player the whole conference.

And then his minutes increased over 40% the next year, and his percentage dropped off considerably.

Seriously, you are going back two years ago?

Thoughts and prayers.

Said this in some other threads; there are several guys on the MU Squad who have proven they can't consistently shoot 3s in games and shoot large volumes with few if any makes. We know from Coaching reports, that these folks are consistently making the shots in practice. I am ok with these unproven players  trying to gain game confidence etc against cupcakes. However, against the quality opponents the unproven players green lights need to be severely restricted. The issue is many of these players are missing wide open uncontested 3s. There has been discussion in threads over the years that High Major D1 Players should be able to hit wide open, uncontested, 3s at the 40 percent rate.

I am fine with guys like Kam being volume 3 point shooters as he has proven consistency. He has also shown discipline this year knowing he will be closely guarded and has no TyKo feeding him.

The role model for the team should be TyKo. He didn't take that many threes, but he was consistently around 40 percent on the  wide open, uncontested, shots and he didn't take many contested unless it was when the clock was running down. 

Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 14, 2024, 06:43:04 PMAnd then his minutes increased over 40% the next year, and his percentage dropped off considerably.

Seriously, you are going back two years ago?

With increased usage, Joplin shot 36% from 3 last season and helped us win a lot of games. That also happens to be his career percentage. I'd take that this season.

Quote from: Herman Cain on November 14, 2024, 07:18:39 PMSaid this in some other threads; there are several guys on the MU Squad who have proven they can't consistently shoot 3s in games and shoot large volumes with few if any makes. We know from Coaching reports, that these folks are consistently making the shots in practice. I am ok with these unproven players  trying to gain game confidence etc against cupcakes. However, against the quality opponents the unproven players green lights need to be severely restricted. The issue is many of these players are missing wide open uncontested 3s. There has been discussion in threads over the years that High Major D1 Players should be able to hit wide open, uncontested, 3s at the 40 percent rate.

I am fine with guys like Kam being volume 3 point shooters as he has proven consistency. He has also shown discipline this year knowing he will be closely guarded and has no TyKo feeding him.

The role model for the team should be TyKo. He didn't take that many threes, but he was consistently around 40 percent on the  wide open, uncontested, shots and he didn't take many contested unless it was when the clock was running down. 

I understand the sentiment and frustration but what I'd love to see in this argument is a definition of consistency that we could test with data. Something like variance in game wise shooting percentage?

Remember... this is a free site.

Horrendous views and commentary are allowed.

Quote from: THRILLHO on November 14, 2024, 01:00:22 PMI ran some simulations to examine a few questions.
1) What type of season long shooting percentage might we expect from someone who we think has a "true" 3PFG% of, say, 36%.
2) What is the probability of a season containing a 3-game slump with 19% shooting for a shooter with a "true" 36% 3PFG%.

Assumptions:
30 game season
Exactly 7 shots per game (BG's average so far) - I didn't sample this but could

Question 1:
In 10000 simulations, the minimum season long 3PFG% is 23.8%, max is 50.4% (see attached histogram).

Question 2:
Over 10000 simulations, there are 7442 3-game slumps with <=19% 3PFG%. Since these are not independent, I also looked at how many seasons would contain a slump, and that number is 42.3%.

Of course if your input 3PFG% is lower, you will get more slumps and more seasons with slumps.

Hopefully this can help inform this conversation.

This is one of the better posts on here.

Ben had a nice night but wanted to talk specifically about his defense. He's been good on that end. Not just in the post, but he holds his own on the perimeter and he's quick enough to hedge and recover. His conditioning has improved a ton too.

Quote from: BM1090 on November 19, 2024, 11:37:42 PMBen had a nice night but wanted to talk specifically about his defense. He's been good on that end. Not just in the post, but he holds his own in the post and he's quick enough to hedge and recover. His conditioning has improved a ton too.

100%

As I said in tower's postgame thread, Gold was outstanding in this game, and really has played quite well most of the season so far.

I would take a performance from Ben like the one vs Purdue every single game this season, and I would like our chances to win the vast majority of them.

Ben's defense locked in about a year ago.   He understood the switches and rotations and his feet never stop moving.  He is not the unicorn that Oso was.   But he is an agile,  mobile 7 footer who understands the defense and his role in it.

Quote from: tower912 on November 20, 2024, 05:24:33 AMBen's defense locked in about a year ago.   He understood the switches and rotations and his feet never stop moving.  He is not the unicorn that Oso was.   But he is an agile,  mobile 7 footer who understands the defense and his role in it.

He kept doubling on the perimeter and kept on recovering to deny many passes down below the basket or at paint area, and was 3-6 from 3

Quote from: MU82 on November 20, 2024, 01:34:38 AMAs I said in tower's postgame thread, Gold was outstanding in this game, and really has played quite well most of the season so far.

I would take a performance from Ben like the one vs Purdue every single game this season, and I would like our chances to win the vast majority of them.

I agree with this analysis. He played with great effort last night.  Shaka recognized he was gassed at one point in the second half after a very active 4 minutes and got him a breather.

On another note - It seems people like to lump Jop and Gold's shooting together.  Gold was 3-6 last night on 3's and people were bitching about his shooting.  His shot looked better last night with more arc. 

Another poster mentioned in a different thread, but it is worth considering:  Is it possible we are a better team without TyKo and Oso?  Gold's ability to shoot really stresses defenses in a way Oso did not.  Also, Oso's game was all pick and roll to the basket, which clogged the lane/choking off driving lanes.

Kam is playing at a level as good, if not better than the best we saw from Tyler - so we are witnessing All-American level play from Kam, and possible CBB Player of Year.

Last thought, I have to think Joplin's shooting will come around, though some of his corner 3's have been alarmingly way off.  If he rounds into form, and Ben continues to trend toward his 35% this team is extremely dangerous.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2024, 09:05:39 AMAnother poster mentioned in a different thread, but it is worth considering:  Is it possible we are a better team without TyKo and Oso?  Gold's ability to shoot really stresses defenses in a way Oso did not.  Also, Oso's game was all pick and roll to the basket, which clogged the lane/choking off driving lanes.

Kam is playing at a level as good, if not better than the best we saw from Tyler - so we are witnessing All-American level play from Kam, and possible CBB Player of Year.

I think it is way too early to make these pronoucements...but it very well could be a better team when all is said and done.

Defensively this looks like a better team. The only real difference is a healthy, more experience Chase is a way better defender than Tyler was. (I think Ben and Oso are about a wash.)

Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 20, 2024, 09:15:57 AMI think it is way too early to make these pronoucements...but it very well could be a better team when all is said and done.

Defensively this looks like a better team. The only real difference is a healthy, more experience Chase is a way better defender than Tyler was. (I think Ben and Oso are about a wash.)

It's kind of amazing to see and hard to explain but Chase Ross seems to have a center of gravity as a defender, kind of similar to how Kolek did on offense. Like I knew where he was at all times and was just waiting for him to make a play.

Quote from: THRILLHO on November 20, 2024, 09:25:14 AMIt's kind of amazing to see and hard to explain but Chase Ross seems to have a center of gravity as a defender, kind of similar to how Kolek did on offense. Like I knew where he was at all times and was just waiting for him to make a play.

Both are very instinctive players.

I don't know about better, but I'll say healthier.  Feel like this is the Chase we could have seen last year if he wasn't banged up. Stevie too. Ben's no Oso, but Chase is better TKO defensively.

Gold's shots looked much better yesterday.  Consistent arc.  I will take shots by him when he has that consistent arc.  It's when he shoots line drives that I cringe.  I think it also helps him when he drives to the lane on occasion. 

Jop just scares me when he has the ball in his hands. 

If only Chase, Sean and Kolek were healthy all last year, that could have been special.

Gold is shooting 31% for the season on 6.5 attempts per game from deep despite starting the season 4/21.

On a board full of ridiculous and rapid overreactions, this one still stands out.

Quote from: Big Papi on November 20, 2024, 09:43:12 AMGold's shots looked much better yesterday.  Consistent arc.  I will take shots by him when he has that consistent arc.  It's when he shoots line drives that I cringe.  I think it also helps him when he drives to the lane on occasion. 

Jop just scares me when he has the ball in his hands. 

If only Chase, Sean and Kolek were healthy all last year, that could have been special.

Yeah, definitely a bit more air under it - if that stays Ben shooting 35% for the season seems much more plausible - here's to hoping!

Quote from: Its DJOver on November 20, 2024, 09:35:43 AMI don't know about better, but I'll say healthier.  Feel like this is the Chase we could have seen last year if he wasn't banged up. Stevie too. Ben's no Oso, but Chase is better TKO defensively.

Agreed.  While Ben is not Oso...the four other players on the court are benefiting from not having Oso's defender in the lane as Ben's 3 has been better as of late. 

How Shaka uses the 5 in his action is really impressive to me.  Hamilton is a little difficult given his offensive abilities at the moment, but for those of you that were at the scrimmage earlier in the year, we all saw how quickly/easily they could make an adjustment to set Clark up for repeated lobs.  It's a pick your poison situation given their surrounding cast.  Ben slips every screen right now.  I'll be interested to see if they see any value in ever having him role to hoop similar to Oso.  Seems like they are trying to get him to drive off the catch a bit instead.  Fun to watch.

I think when the defensjve big starts recovering aggressively to contest Ben's 3s, there will be a pump fake and drive.  It is the next step in progression for both Ben and the offense.

I'm betting this thread will have 20 pages by the end of the year. With each side saying told you so depending on which streak gold is on.