Like Brother Goose, I'm all-in on Coach Shaka. He's given us almost everything we could expect and done it with class and the type of support for our players that few universities offer. His biggest criticism is he's come on the crap side of a crap shoot, the NCAA tournament.

But before you criticize, just ask yourself, "if someone had told me when we fired coach Wojo, we'd be in the NCAA every year, made it to the Sweet 16 and Big East Champion," you'd have fallen over. Nobody would have believed it and yet, that's where we are.

All that said, my biggest concern about the program is whether the four-year approach we use can win an NCAA Championship. We do a great job developing and playing three- and four-star players and getting to the threshold. But, will it take a five-star, one-and-done or two-and-done players to reach the pinnacle of the NCAA? I honestly don't know, given the changes in college basketball.

Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that no one I can recall won an NCAA in their first few years with a program. It takes time to build a reputation and attract the very best. I suspect that if Coach Shaka thought he was close and a transferee would put us over the top, he'd be there. But we haven't reach that point, I suspect, yet!

Not sold that Shaka can get MU to the Final 4 much less being National Championship.  He had 3 NBA players last 2 years plus a good supporting staff of players.  This year they will be good with Kam running the show, future 2 to 3  years from now will be very good.

Clark or Hamilton center
Parham
Owens Militic
Hopefully Stevens Lowery
James. Norman

Not bad going forward

Quote from: BCHoopster on July 26, 2024, 02:06:45 PM
Not sold that Shaka can get MU to the Final 4 much less being National Championship.  He had 3 NBA players last 2 years plus a good supporting staff of players.  This year they will be good with Kam running the show, future 2 to 3  years from now will be very good.

Clark or Hamilton center
Parham
Owens Militic
Hopefully Stevens Lowery
James. Norman

Not bad going forward

Winning the Natty is just about getting hot in a tournament.  Plenty of great coaches dip out early every year.

I'm not saying it's a total crap shoot, but winning it all shouldn't be the decider of whether or not Shaka sticks around.

Quote from: BCHoopster on July 26, 2024, 02:06:45 PM
Not sold that Shaka can get MU to the Final 4 much less being National Championship.  He had 3 NBA players last 2 years plus a good supporting staff of players.  This year they will be good with Kam running the show, future 2 to 3  years from now will be very good.

Clark or Hamilton center
Parham
Owens Militic
Hopefully Stevens Lowery
James. Norman

Not bad going forward

I'm optimistic on the future, but that list includes 7 players that haven't played a minute for MU. Who knows how the roster will shake out?

By not playing the portal game and not going after one and dones, it will be very hard to be a Top 20 team year in and year out.  You have to put together top 10 recruiting classes almost every year to be that consistent vs. the blue bloods who recruit kids that are ready as freshman.  MU has not had that player lately, hopefully one of the frosh this year surprises.  Secondly you can not have a weak class, right now Gold, Ross and an injured Jones was not terrific, average at best

Quote from: BCHoopster on July 26, 2024, 02:49:23 PM
By not playing the portal game and not going after one and dones, it will be very hard to be a Top 20 team year in and year out.  You have to put together top 10 recruiting classes almost every year to be that consistent vs. the blue bloods who recruit kids that are ready as freshman.  MU has not had that player lately, hopefully one of the frosh this year surprises.  Secondly you can not have a weak class, right now Gold, Ross and an injured Jones was not terrific, average at best

Or maybe a continuity of players and good coaching will be good enough. We will see.

Quote from: MUbiz on July 26, 2024, 12:52:32 PM
Do you have a link for said article please?

It's behind a paywall

Quote from: BCHoopster on July 26, 2024, 02:49:23 PM
By not playing the portal game and not going after one and dones, it will be very hard to be a Top 20 team year in and year out.  You have to put together top 10 recruiting classes almost every year to be that consistent vs. the blue bloods who recruit kids that are ready as freshman.  MU has not had that player lately, hopefully one of the frosh this year surprises.  Secondly you can not have a weak class, right now Gold, Ross and an injured Jones was not terrific, average at best

UW-Madison would like a word.

Wojo was a great recruiter, but that didn't translate to post season success.  Bo Ryan was a mediocre recruiter, but was consistently in the top 20 and went to the National Championship game twice.  Zero one and done's for Bo.

Coaching, culture, and development is essential, if not more important than recruiting.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2024, 03:00:48 PM
UW-Madison would like a word.

Wojo was a great recruiter, but that didn't translate to post season success.  Bo Ryan was a mediocre recruiter, but was consistently in the top 20 and went to the National Championship game twice.  Zero one and done's for Bo.

Coaching, culture, and development is essential, if not more important than recruiting.

Once.

Quote from: We R Final Four on July 26, 2024, 03:05:39 PM
Once.

Sorry, I meant final four and then NC.  Regardless, he had sustained success without having guys that were highly recruited.

How many recent championships does Calipari have with all of his one and done recruits?  Last one was TWELVE years ago.

Shaka is doing it old school.  Recruit 3-4 stars, retain them and develop them.   MU has flourished when they had a coach that zigged when others zagged.  I find it fun and invigorating to go against the zeitgeist. 

Shaka will not go to the portal until he has to.  And that will be due to unexpected departures.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2024, 03:12:30 PM
Sorry, I meant final four and then NC.  Regardless, he had sustained success without having guys that were highly recruited.

How many recent championships does Calipari have with all of his one and done recruits?  Last one was TWELVE years ago.

Never liked what Calapari was doing, even he knew it was wrong.  Freshman at his level, have one thought on there mind, NBA.  Shephard and Dillingham were on the bench, tells you about his coaching.  Shephard came to MU they would have gotten to the final 4. He's proven his system does not work, but adding the portal will help him

Quote from: tower912 on July 26, 2024, 03:22:22 PM
Shaka is doing it old school.  Recruit 3-4 stars, retain them and develop them.   MU has flourished when they had a coach that zigged when others zagged.  I find it fun and invigorating to go against the zeitgeist. 

Shaka will not go to the portal until he has to.  And that will be due to unexpected departures.

Shaka system is more interesting watching players develop but not sure this system will work over the long haul

I disagree.   Stability and development is a sounder long term strategy than hitting the free agent market every off season and getting into bidding wars for players who have already shown themselves to be dissatisfied.

Quote from: tower912 on July 26, 2024, 03:30:57 PM
I disagree.   Stability and development is a sounder long term strategy than hitting the free agent market every off season and getting into bidding wars for players who have already shown themselves to be dissatisfied.

Agreed.  Not to mention, there are plenty of guys who are highly recruited who don't end up being all that good.  And there are plenty of guys who fly under the radar for recruiting and end up in the NBA.

Getting a highly coveted recruit isn't essential to winning a NC.

Crean:  Can't recruit bigs, can't beat a zone, too many transfers.
Buzz:  Too many Jucos, never puts his offense in until conference season, questionable character.  Too many transfers.
Wojo:  only transfers he brings in are 5th years, doesn't recruit to a system, doesn't bring in big guards or athletic wings, too many transfers.

Shaka:  Recruits size and athleticism to fit his system.  Good character kids.  Retains and develops  Huh.   NOT ENOUGH  TRANFERS TO STAY COMPETITIVE LONG TERM.

Quote from: tower912 on July 26, 2024, 03:30:57 PM
I disagree.   Stability and development is a sounder long term strategy than hitting the free agent market every off season and getting into bidding wars for players who have already shown themselves to be dissatisfied.

If you are content to be an above average team, win a game or two in the tourney, so be it.  I would like more. 

Quote from: BCHoopster on July 26, 2024, 04:33:03 PM
If you are content to be an above average team, win a game or two in the tourney, so be it.  I would like more.

UConn is famous for being above average, and wining a game or two in the tourney.

Bobby Hurley brought in one 5 star guy in the last four years.  And that was last year and Stephon Castle... after they'd already won a Natty.

I get what you're trying to say, but the data doesn't really back up your hypothesis.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2024, 04:37:31 PM
UConn is famous for being above average, and wining a game or two in the tourney.

Bobby Hurley brought in one 5 star guy in the last four years.  And that was last year and Stephon Castle... after they'd already won a Natty.

I get what you're trying to say, but the data doesn't really back up your hypothesis.

Hurley got a 5 star recruit and maybe the best portal player last year.  Doing the same this upcoming season

Quote from: BCHoopster on July 26, 2024, 04:43:02 PM
Hurley got a 5 star recruit and maybe the best portal player last year.  Doing the same this upcoming season

After having won it all already without those things.

Add one portal player every year where you see weaknesses moving forward. He will not do that but should.  Secondly, he has a big enough name to go after a top 20 recruit, missed on KK, tried. Thirdly, try and keep local talent here

Quote from: BCHoopster on July 26, 2024, 04:33:03 PM
If you are content to be an above average team, win a game or two in the tourney, so be it.  I would like more.

UConn won nothing in Hurley's first 4 years. Nada. In Year 5, they started well but had a 2-6 stretch that caused them to fall out of the top 20. Going into February, they were hardly a national title favorite. But then they got hot again and, despite losing to Marquette in the BET, caught a big-time hot streak in March. That's often how most national titles are won.

Very often, the team deemed the "best" doesn't win the title. That Hurley was able to win it all as both the acknowledged "best" in 2024 and as the "hot team at the right time" in 2023 deserves plaudits.

But it doesn't mean it's impossible for Marquette or any other team to duplicate what UConn did in 2023. And if we're talking about "just" getting to the Final Four, look at the teams that have done so the last two years.

Quote from: BCHoopster on July 26, 2024, 04:48:32 PM
Add one portal player every year where you see weaknesses moving forward. He will not do that but should.  Secondly, he has a big enough name to go after a top 20 recruit, missed on KK, tried. Thirdly, try and keep local talent here

Why?  And cut kids and toss out his culture to bring in someone who may or may not be better and a better fit?  While undermining trust?   

Secondly, he has an offer out to a 5 star 2026.   

Thirdly, why?  Particularly if he can get better talent elsewhere.  Kind of a narrow minded, provincial attitude.  Plus, he has local talent.  Your favorite player, David Joplin.     
Would you rather have Ward or Jensen?


Help me out.  Local guys who stayed 4 years in this millennium.  Novak, Diener, Heldt?   Joplin will be the fourth?

I would like both, saw Jensen last year, has improved over the summer, think he has big upside, Ward no idea but great stats at the Peach Jam against the best high school kids in America. Jensen would be a nice pickup when Gold is gone.  Ward is going to after the two freshman in the program right now. Do you like Batemon or Stevens, do you like Clark over Kai Rogers?

Quote from: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2024, 04:37:31 PM
UConn is famous for being above average, and wining a game or two in the tourney.

Bobby Hurley brought in one 5 star guy in the last four years.  And that was last year and Stephon Castle... after they'd already won a Natty.

I get what you're trying to say, but the data doesn't really back up your hypothesis.

*Danny