Poll
Question:
Who gets passed up, who gets lapped?
Option 1: Stevie
votes: 2
Option 2: Chase
votes: 4
Option 3: Jop
votes: 19
Option 4: Ben
votes: 24
Option 5: Not happenin
votes: 75
Alright, less than 3 weeks out so it's time to get to the nitty gritty.
Scoop has been very seashells and balloons, and that's ok. I'm very seashells and balloons as well.
This is NOT a knock on any of the current starters. This is conversation amongst fans of a perennial top 25 NCAAb team that has a man in charge that's able, and the hopes and dream of its fanbase to match, to take us back to the promised land.
That said and out of the way, let's just make it crystal clear by saying that getting passed up on the depth chart on a team as good as Marquette is no slight, there is a solid role for 7-9 guys in every championship team.
So, all that said and the emotions out of the way, who gets passed up in the rotation?
I don't mean in November, I mean for the final 3rd stretch of the season and into the dance.
Disclaimer #3: I am in no way rooting for anyone to get lapped (as in getting lapped in the mile, not at silk)
5 presumed starters: (tbd by coach smart on 11/4)
1) Kam- forgettaboutit
2) Stevie- very low probability imo, although not impossible. He's got one of the likely suspects to slide into a premier role, Damarius Owens, handling the ball and playing an impressive role on both ends of the floor in camp, by all accounts.
After all, a backcourt of Kam and Damarius, with 3 other "bigs" is an extreme benefit from a size perspective.
Stevie does it all, however, and his defense alone keeps him in an elite roll.
I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but he's got the personality to understand if/when he's got to take a back seat so it's not unfathomable. Side note, don't forget SJ22.
3) Chase- Newly inserted starter. Practice darling and a "dude." Showed some great promise very late in the season and per Shaka battled injury all year, even the type we didn't know about, and is a valued warrior.
All in all didn't live up to the gametime hype last year, so a mystery of which Chase we get.
In that Swiss army 3 spot roll he has a chance to get nipped by a combo of things if he doesn't perform- Damarius or Tre at the 1 with Stevie at the 3 in a 3 guard set, Zaide, or something wild like Ben sliding to the 4 at the hands of Caedin or Royce, moving Jop to the 3.
We are all hoping Chase lives up to the abilities Shaka thinks will take him to that next level.
4) Jop- His ceiling is top 5 scorer in the BE. His floor is brick city and passed up by an underclassman.
His body of work is too strong as a scorer, as a pure shooter. That stroke can be so pure, and although it's hard to shake that abysmal performance against NCSt he deserves several mulligans.
Multiple poor shooting and poor defensive performances open the door for someone to slide into his spot, however.
Zaide or Royce or Owens, Ben over to the 4? Harder for him to get replaced for multiple reasons imo, including need for scoring and overall body of work, thinness of the front court.
Hopefully it doesn't happen because I've said multiple times Jop is the X Factor for the season.
5) Ben- Newly inserted starter. Biggest wildcard. Biggest question mark.
Haven't heard much about him in camp, but the scoop intelligentsia think he has NBA hopes in his bones.
I've heard Shaka and Oso compliment him on several occasions, but is that just them trying to instill confidence?
I've heard praise of Caedin all camp, but is that just trying to light a fire in Ben?
It'll be interesting to see how this one goes.
Cut from the NZ team this summer, and you haven't heard too much in terms of praise. Shoots a lot from outside, but can he shoot?
If he scuffles who replaces him, Caedin, Royce, lift the redshirt on Josh?
Move Jop to the 5?
I'm most worried about the 5 spot because of the lack of depth that you can count on at this position.
Thoughts?
None of the above.
Shaka rides with experience. The shuffling, if there is any, is on the depth chart.
Quote from: DoctorV on October 16, 2024, 12:31:23 AM
Alright, less than 3 weeks out so it's time to get to the nitty gritty.
Scoop has been very seashells and balloons, and that's ok. I'm very seashells and balloons as well.
This is NOT a knock on any of the current starters. This is conversation amongst fans of a perennial top 25 NCAAb team that has a man in charge that's able, and the hopes and dream of its fanbase to match, to take us back to the promised land.
That said and out of the way, let's just make it crystal clear by saying that getting passed up on the depth chart on a team as good as Marquette is no slight, there is a solid role for 7-9 guys in every championship team.
So, all that said and the emotions out of the way, who gets passed up in the rotation?
I don't mean in November, I mean for the final 3rd stretch of the season and into the dance.
Disclaimer #3: I am in no way rooting for anyone to get lapped (as in getting lapped in the mile, not at silk)
5 presumed starters: (tbd by coach smart on 11/4)
1) Kam- forgettaboutit
2) Stevie- very low probability imo, although not impossible. He's got one of the likely suspects to slide into a premier role, Damarius Owens, handling the ball and playing an impressive role on both ends of the floor in camp, by all accounts.
After all, a backcourt of Kam and Damarius, with 3 other "bigs" is an extreme benefit from a size perspective.
Stevie does it all, however, and his defense alone keeps him in an elite roll.
I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but he's got the personality to understand if/when he's got to take a back seat so it's not unfathomable. Side note, don't forget SJ22.
3) Chase- Newly inserted starter. Practice darling and a "dude." Showed some great promise very late in the season and per Shaka battled injury all year, even the type we didn't know about, and is a valued warrior.
All in all didn't live up to the gametime hype last year, so a mystery of which Chase we get.
In that Swiss army 3 spot roll he has a chance to get nipped by a combo of things if he doesn't perform- Damarius or Tre at the 1 with Stevie at the 3 in a 3 guard set, Zaide, or something wild like Ben sliding to the 4 at the hands of Caedin or Royce, moving Jop to the 3.
We are all hoping Chase lives up to the abilities Shaka thinks will take him to that next level.
4) Jop- His ceiling is top 5 scorer in the BE. His floor is brick city and passed up by an underclassman.
His body of work is too strong as a scorer, as a pure shooter. That stroke can be so pure, and although it's hard to shake that abysmal performance against NCSt he deserves several mulligans.
Multiple poor shooting and poor defensive performances open the door for someone to slide into his spot, however.
Zaide or Royce or Owens, Ben over to the 4? Harder for him to get replaced for multiple reasons imo, including need for scoring and overall body of work, thinness of the front court.
Hopefully it doesn't happen because I've said multiple times Jop is the X Factor for the season.
5) Ben- Newly inserted starter. Biggest wildcard. Biggest question mark.
Haven't heard much about him in camp, but the scoop intelligentsia think he has NBA hopes in his bones.
I've heard Shaka and Oso compliment him on several occasions, but is that just them trying to instill confidence?
I've heard praise of Caedin all camp, but is that just trying to light a fire in Ben?
It'll be interesting to see how this one goes.
Cut from the NZ team this summer, and you haven't heard too much in terms of praise. Shoots a lot from outside, but can he shoot?
If he scuffles who replaces him, Caedin, Royce, lift the redshirt on Josh?
Move Jop to the 5?
I'm most worried about the 5 spot because of the lack of depth that you can count on at this position.
Thoughts?
A bit worried about Ben staying on thr floor and rebounding in general Dr. V. Our prime-time guards have to be strong on the defensive glass.
The 5 spot is a concern. Time will tell.
There is actually 0% chance that Stevie loses his spot. 0.
Basically same for the rest really.
Shaka rides with experience.
Stevie and Chase especially can do all the little things on top of the experience that he wants.
Jop is one of our few proven shooters for on ball Kam.
We literally need a big.
They will all play. All play a lot. All year. Starters likely the whole time barring discipline.
He won't do it.
But the answer is Jop unless something clicks.
Quote from: MUfan12 on October 16, 2024, 08:44:12 AM
He won't do it.
But the answer is Jop unless something clicks.
What needs to "click?" He is who he is. He will be slightly better than he was last year.
And he won't be losing his starting role.
Stevie is MU's best defender , and one of the premier defenders in all of college basketball so he will get max minutes
My vote is Ben based on paint defense. MU was 12 or 13 points per game worse on defense with Ben on floor compared to Oso. I can see Caedin getting some run if BG can't guard.
Barring injury our starting 5 will be the same all season. Bench rotation is subject to change based on who is playing well/matchups/etc, but no bench player will "lap" a starter.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 16, 2024, 08:46:45 AM
What needs to "click?" He is who he is. He will be slightly better than he was last year.
And he won't be losing his starting role.
Right, which is why I said "He won't do it."
But since you asked.... Last week Shaka talked about Jop realizing his potential as a senior, it's not a leap to think there's another level he can get to. More decisive with the ball, more engaged on the glass, taking more pride in his defense.
I see it this way: Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player. Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players. Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes. Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.
I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.). I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler. Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso. Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on October 16, 2024, 09:42:15 AM
I see it this way: Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player. Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players. Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes. Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.
I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.). I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler. Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso. Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.
I think this is a pretty good breakdown. I do think we are going to be small at times, so Ben + Caedin won't equal 40.
We have yet to have a Freshman average 20+ mpg under Shaka. I would love for Demarius to be good enough to be the first, I'm just not sure I can make that prediction based off of coach talk, 1 open practice, and 1 scrimmage.
Unless Owens or another bench player is contributing at a lottery level off the bench (think Reed Sheppard) I don't see anyone getting passed. I actually think the Sheppard scenario where a bench player gets starter minutes (28 mpg) but continues as sixth man is more likely. Sheppard only started 5 games but averaged more minutes than all but 2 Kentucky starters.
The only other situation I can envision is injury. If someone misses 6+ games and the replacement is just lights out better during that stretch, maybe the replacement keeps the spot.
No chance on any except for maybe Chase pending his health. Could see Zaide slotting into his starting spot if need be.
Jop and Stevie are 100,000,000% safe and that may be too low.
After the 4th NC loss, there will be a shakeup
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 16, 2024, 11:12:01 AM
After the 4th NC loss, there will be a shakeup
We are going full Bills and losing 4 straight title games?
Imagine most of the shake up will come from standard graduation by that point.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on October 16, 2024, 09:42:15 AM
I see it this way: Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player. Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players. Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes. Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.
I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.). I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler. Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso. Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.
Yup. Agree with most of this. I'm a little less sure about Owens getting 20+ minutes most games, but I still find merit in this overall analysis.
Related:
Too many folks look at a player and see what he did last season or the season before. Too many don't even consider that 1 or 2 or 4 guys could improve significantly - despite the history of exactly that during Shaka's time at Marquette.
If any of Ross, Gold, Lowery, Hamilton and/or Norman improve at anywhere near the level that so many players (obviously led by Oso and TK) did during Shaka's first 3 seasons, Marquette could be a serious threat in the Big East and in March.
Heck, I see every reason to expect it.
I believe shaka rolls with the 5 starters enumerated above until there is clear rationale not too. For me, I think scoring could be that rationale. Last year, Tyler, Oso, and Kam could be counted on for 45 to 50 points per game. I do not see that same consistency this year. We do have guys on the bench who have potential to score more and think that will be the major factor for increased minutes for any non starters.
As to freshman help, as a 3 year mu hoops player once told me.....never trust a freshman.
I voted for no one being lapped, but if I had to pick it would be Jop. I've never seen Shaka do it, but if Jop is still taking plays off or looking lost at times... maybe it could be a last resort wake up call?
Quote from: MU82 on October 16, 2024, 01:11:37 AM
None of the above.
Thanks, forgot to enter this as an option.
For complete transparency this was entered after the fact, several votes had already been placed, so Ben and or Jop may have been jobbed.
Aka rigged election. My apologies
Quote from: Elonsmusk on October 16, 2024, 09:42:15 AM
I see it this way: Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player. Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players. Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes. Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.
I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.). I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler. Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso. Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.
Good post.
More optimistic than where I stand, especially on the offense not falling off without Tyler and Oso, but I hope you're right.
Most of the points make complete sense.
I will say that I did not quite buy into all the OMax hype but he ended up being very good, better than I expected so I was wrong. He still drove me nuts, but I'll never forget that putback last second bucket v X, that was an all timer. He was drafted, so I was clearly missing something in what I saw.
Hopefully the same holds true for Benny...
I just need him to come out game 1 and gimme of those pump fake top of the key 3s into a drive for a slam at the hoop for an and one, to go along with a 3/5 performance from 3 and all faith will again be restored.
Is that too much to ask for?
The season starts and finishes with the play of Ben Gold. As I have said many times he is not a center, wing shooting forward, so I can see Caedin and Ben playing together at times as Ben is to foul prone. In the scrimmage he shot poorly but wearing the mask probably did not help, shot still looks very flat. Looks bigger but he is big enough to handle the physicality of the Big East, but if he can shot around 35-40 percent from three he will become an asset.
Quote from: BCHoopster on October 16, 2024, 01:17:19 PM
The season starts and finishes with the play of Ben Gold. As I have said many times he is not a center, wing shooting forward, so I can see Caedin and Ben playing together at times as Ben is to foul prone. In the scrimmage he shot poorly but wearing the mask probably did not help, shot still looks very flat. Looks bigger but he is big enough to handle the physicality of the Big East, but if he can shot around 35-40 percent from three he will become an asset.
Yep. Biggest X factor.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on October 16, 2024, 09:42:15 AM
I see it this way: Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player. Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players. Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes. Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.
I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.). I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler. Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso. Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.
you may be expecting too much from a kid who hasn't played a competitive game in a year, and wasn't even ranked by the major services and only had offers from two CAA squads. My guess is Parnham will get more time than he will this season, or we'll go small when Gold sits.
I don't see Stevie being under 30 minutes/game either.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on October 16, 2024, 01:25:16 PM
you may be expecting too much from a kid who hasn't played a competitive game in a year, and wasn't even ranked by the major services and only had offers from two CAA squads. My guess is Parnham will get more time than he will this season, or we'll go small when Gold sits.
I don't see Stevie being under 30 minutes/game either.
Only way Stevie isn't playing 30+ minutes on a regular basis is if Marquette is blowing people out on a nightly basis
Quote from: UWW2MU on October 16, 2024, 12:27:38 PM
I voted for no one being lapped, but if I had to pick it would be Jop. I've never seen Shaka do it, but if Jop is still taking plays off or looking lost at times... maybe it could be a last resort wake up call?
I didn't get the sense Jop was taking plays off the last ten games of last year. He turned a corner effort wise. Didn't always play well, but he was moving the ball more and playing less hesitant.
Hopefully he can do it for a whole season this year.
Disregarding a freshman or sophomore breakout star, the answer has got to be Gold.
If Gold struggles shooting the 3 ball, and is getting outmatched physically, I could see him losing minutes.
Starting lineup will only change, if there is an injury. I could see a shift in minutes played as season goes on.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on October 16, 2024, 01:25:16 PM
I don't see Stevie being under 30 minutes/game either.
+1
How electric do you expect Kam and Chase being? Could we be looking at 38ppg together with tremendous efficiency? Including 40-45% from distance?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 04:17:14 PM
How electric do you expect Kam and Chase being? Could we be looking at 38ppg together with tremendous efficiency? Including 40-45% from distance?
No
I see small ball in stretches.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 04:18:57 PM
I see small ball in stretches.
A golf ball in a limo?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 04:17:14 PM
How electric do you expect Kam and Chase being? Could we be looking at 38ppg together with tremendous efficiency? Including 40-45% from distance?
I don't see 20+ ppg from Kam or 18+ ppg from Chase. I'd think 18 ppg from Kam, 11 ppg from Chase. I don't think either will be over 40% from 3.
Even making Stevie Mitchell a choice is laughable.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 04:17:14 PM
How electric do you expect Kam and Chase being? Could we be looking at 38ppg together with tremendous efficiency? Including 40-45% from distance?
Only 40-45%?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 04:18:07 PM
Why the pessimism??
Quote from: wadesworld on October 16, 2024, 04:32:39 PM
I don't see 20+ ppg from Kam or 18+ ppg from Chase. I'd think 18 ppg from Kam, 11 ppg from Chase. I don't think either will be over 40% from 3.
Really?
I think 20+ is easily attainable for Kam. From the day Kolek got hurt to the end of the season Kam scored 191 points in 9 games for an average over 21 ppg. I think it is more likely that Kam gets to 20 ppg than it is Chase gets to 12.
Well.....I expect superb seasons from both young men. And do not be surprised if Kam has a MAMMOTH season. I could see BEPOY.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on October 16, 2024, 05:11:53 PM
Really?
I think 20+ is easily attainable for Kam. From the day Kolek got hurt to the end of the season Kam scored 191 points in 9 games for an average over 21 ppg. I think it is more likely that Kam gets to 20 ppg than it is Chase gets to 12.
33 ppg collectively would be acceptable I suppose.
Quote from: tower912 on October 16, 2024, 04:26:45 PM
A golf ball in a limo?
You know what I meant Tower. We must play with prime-time speed and quickness. It's non-negotiable. Run, lace the triple, and play with toughness, poise, and confidence.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 06:06:59 PM
You know what I meant Tower. We must play with prime-time speed and quickness. It's non-negotiable. Run, lace the triple, and play with toughness, poise, and confidence.
And have fun
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 05:58:30 PM
Well.....I expect superb seasons from both young men. And do not be surprised if Kam has a MAMMOTH season. I could see BEPOY.
I hope not
Mammoths were dumb and slow and are extinct.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on October 16, 2024, 06:47:00 PM
I hope not
Mammoths were dumb and slow and are extinct.
Wrong and wrong, as their closest living relatives are 🐘 🐘 🐘. Elephants are amazing members of the animal kingdom and behave with tremendous dignity and grace. And if you think they aren't smart you better think again.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on October 16, 2024, 05:11:53 PM
Really?
I think 20+ is easily attainable for Kam. From the day Kolek got hurt to the end of the season Kam scored 191 points in 9 games for an average over 21 ppg. I think it is more likely that Kam gets to 20 ppg than it is Chase gets to 12.
That's a very small sample size.
Kam's 17 ppg last year are the most any player has ever averaged on a Shaka coached team. Kam will be relied upon to run the offense more this year. I'd expect his scoring to be about what it was last year, and would be shocked if he averaged 21 ppg.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 04:17:14 PM
How electric do you expect Kam and Chase being? Could we be looking at 38ppg together with tremendous efficiency? Including 40-45% from distance?
38ppg well short of scoring in the 50's, we're screwed.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 16, 2024, 08:08:30 PM
That's a very small sample size.
Kam's 17 ppg last year are the most any player has ever averaged on a Shaka coached team. Kam will be relied upon to run the offense more this year. I'd expect his scoring to be about what it was last year, and would be shocked if he averaged 21 ppg.
Averaging 20ish ppg and 5+ apg would probably make Kam BEPoY and an All American.
I've always been super bullish on Kam and his abilities, but that's a tall task and it definitely won't be easy.
Oddly, my biggest concern for him offensively on the season is what I consider his biggest strength, his 3P shooting.
He's always been set up beautifully and effectively by TyKo, which has given him plenty of good looks.
This season, not only will he be lacking some of those looks, but he will also be much more tired having to run a ton of offense, and that may affect the freshness of his legs and in return his outside shooting effectiveness.
I do think that with as much as he will be on the ball if he shoots 37/38% or better from 3 he will come close to the numbers I listed above and have an all-time great type season at Marquette.
I'll go with 19ppg along with 5apg on 37% shooting from 3 as my prediction.
Quote from: DoctorV on October 16, 2024, 09:35:25 PM
Averaging 20ish ppg and 5+ apg would probably make Kam BEPoY and an All American.
I've always been super bullish on Kam and his abilities, but that's a tall task and it definitely won't be easy.
Oddly, my biggest concern for him offensively on the season is what I consider his biggest strength, his 3P shooting.
He's always been set up beautifully and effectively by TyKo, which has given him plenty of good looks.
This season, not only will he be lacking some of those looks, but he will also be much more tired having to run a ton of offense, and that may affect the freshness of his legs and in return his outside shooting effectiveness.
I do think that with as much as he will be on the ball if he shoots 37/38% or better from 3 he will come close to the numbers I listed above and have an all-time great type season at Marquette.
I'll go with 19ppg along with 5apg on 37% shooting from 3 as my prediction.
Do you forsee 5-6 FT's a game for Kam Dr. V?
Quote from: DoctorV on October 16, 2024, 09:35:25 PM
Averaging 20ish ppg and 5+ apg would probably make Kam BEPoY and an All American.
I've always been super bullish on Kam and his abilities, but that's a tall task and it definitely won't be easy.
Oddly, my biggest concern for him offensively on the season is what I consider his biggest strength, his 3P shooting.
He's always been set up beautifully and effectively by TyKo, which has given him plenty of good looks.
This season, not only will he be lacking some of those looks, but he will also be much more tired having to run a ton of offense, and that may affect the freshness of his legs and in return his outside shooting effectiveness.
I do think that with as much as he will be on the ball if he shoots 37/38% or better from 3 he will come close to the numbers I listed above and have an all-time great type season at Marquette.
I'll go with 19ppg along with 5apg on 37% shooting from 3 as my prediction.
I think he'll shoot just fine. His step back is really effective and with the ball more he'll be able to get into the lane more to set it up.
I do worry about him wearing down, though.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 07:25:32 PM
Wrong and wrong, as their closest living relatives are 🐘 🐘 🐘. Elephants are amazing members of the animal kingdom and behave with tremendous dignity and grace. And if you think they aren't smart you better think again.
So it's true, you really DO love animals.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 16, 2024, 10:02:14 PM
Do you forsee 5-6 FT's a game for Kam Dr. V?
This is not going to happen. Kam averaged 2 FTs per game last year and it's a feature, not a bug. The reason Kam is so good at the rim is because he's great at putting the proper weight on the ball and using the angles while avoiding contact. He doesn't go to the line because it's that aspect of his game that makes him so effective. He isn't going to start hunting contact because it will reduce his ability to score at the rim. We just need to accept that this is who Kam is and it's why he's so awesome at what he does.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 17, 2024, 07:34:12 AM
This is not going to happen. Kam averaged 2 FTs per game last year and it's a feature, not a bug. The reason Kam is so good at the rim is because he's great at putting the proper weight on the ball and using the angles while avoiding contact. He doesn't go to the line because it's that aspect of his game that makes him so effective. He isn't going to start hunting contact because it will reduce his ability to score at the rim. We just need to accept that this is who Kam is and it's why he's so awesome at what he does.
I'd line to see multiple guys attacking the rim Brew. If our 3 ball isn't cooking we need to find a way to create offensive. Jop is capable inside when he doesn't overdriibble or hold the rock.
Like Stevie? Like Chase? Joplin gets complained about when he puts the ball on the floor.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 16, 2024, 08:08:30 PM
That's a very small sample size.
Kam's 17 ppg last year are the most any player has ever averaged on a Shaka coached team. Kam will be relied upon to run the offense more this year. I'd expect his scoring to be about what it was last year, and would be shocked if he averaged 21 ppg.
I think Kam gets 20 ppg. He'll be on the floor more, with the ball in his hands more often. Between TK and Oso, there are 20 shots per game leaving the team. I can easily see Kam getting at least four of those, and if he shoots at the same percentage as last year, that will get him to 20.
Quote from: tower912 on October 17, 2024, 07:52:17 AM
Like Stevie? Like Chase? Joplin gets complained about when he puts the ball on the floor.
I've watched Jop play for three years, and people keep saying that he should put the ball on the floor and drive past people, and he just can't do it consistently. That's not going to change. He is a shooter, who more often than not will just try to back people down.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 17, 2024, 07:47:36 AM
I'd line to see multiple guys attacking the rim Brew. If our 3 ball isn't cooking we need to find a way to create offensive. Jop is capable inside when he doesn't overdriibble or hold the rock.
That's literally our offense. Rim and threes. But Kam will score at the rim by getting his shots to fall, not by going into contact and getting to the line.
Kam made 65.0% at the rim last year and 68.7% the year before. He's awesome at the rim. The reason for it is because of how well he avoids contact, not by finishing through it.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 17, 2024, 07:56:15 AM
I've watched Jop play for three years, and people keep saying that he should put the ball on the floor and drive past people, and he just can't do it consistently. That's not going to change. He is a shooter, who more often than not will just try to back people down.
I'd like to see Jop take some 10' jump shots
Quote from: tower912 on October 17, 2024, 07:52:17 AM
Like Stevie? Like Chase? Joplin gets complained about when he puts the ball on the floor.
Jop is fine when he goes 2 dribbles with force and no hesitation. He gets into trouble when he tries to be Carmelo Anthony and bounces it forever, which leads to kick aways and bad shots. I'd like to see him catch it deeper and cut to the rim more.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 17, 2024, 08:14:12 AM
That's literally our offense. Rim and threes. But Kam will score at the rim by getting his shots to fall, not by going into contact and getting to the line.
Kam made 65.0% at the rim last year and 68.7% the year before. He's awesome at the rim. The reason for it is because of how well he avoids contact, not by finishing through it.
What do you forsee with the freshmen Brew scoring wise?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 17, 2024, 08:23:18 AM
What do you forsee with the freshmen Brew scoring wise?
4.20
Whoever goes medieval the least, has to be front runner to be lapped.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 17, 2024, 07:56:15 AM
I've watched Jop play for three years, and people keep saying that he should put the ball on the floor and drive past people, and he just can't do it consistently. That's not going to change. He is a shooter, who more often than not will just try to back people down.
I don't recall anyone suggesting Joplin should put the ball on the floor and drive past people - but if they have they're dead wrong. He doesn't have the quickness to drive around or past people. I'm not even particularly fond of him backing his defender down - too many turnovers/missed shots. As you say, he's a shooter. Sometimes a great one. Let him be who he is.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 17, 2024, 10:19:39 AM
He doesn't have the quickness to drive around or past people. I'm not even particularly fond of him backing his defender down - too many turnovers/missed shots. As you say, he's a shooter. Sometimes a great one. Let him be who he is.
Yup.
But the one thing I would add is he needs to be a more willing cutter. Teams will overplay him if he hits a couple threes. Some baseline cuts could get him some easy ones.
I believe that Jop had the ability to learn to be a great post up scorer, but too many bad habits to break. Hopefully he has a strong shooting year because it will be needed.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 17, 2024, 07:34:12 AM
This is not going to happen. Kam averaged 2 FTs per game last year and it's a feature, not a bug. The reason Kam is so good at the rim is because he's great at putting the proper weight on the ball and using the angles while avoiding contact. He doesn't go to the line because it's that aspect of his game that makes him so effective. He isn't going to start hunting contact because it will reduce his ability to score at the rim. We just need to accept that this is who Kam is and it's why he's so awesome at what he does.
In the game at X, where he played PG, he took 17 shots, 11 inside the arc, and only had 3 free throws. He averaged 1.5 free throws a game and only had more than 3 free throws attempted in a game six times (four attempts on three of those occasions), with a high of 7 at home against X and that was a game where he had 10 three-point attempts. You are right in that getting to the line just isn't a part of his game. His body control to avoid contact and yet still make shots is amazing.
That said, last year half of Kam's FG attempts were three pointers, and I could see that percentage coming down as he plays more point, as he attempted a smaller percentage threes when Kolek was out injured, which could mean getting to the line more often (Kolek averaged 3 FT attempts per game).
Every time Jop puts the ball on the floor I cringe...and usually for good reason. I like the idea of a 10' jump shot...
Quote from: MUfan12 on October 17, 2024, 10:22:11 AM
Yup.
But the one thing I would add is he needs to be a more willing cutter. Teams will overplay him if he hits a couple threes. Some baseline cuts could get him some easy ones.
Outstanding point.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 17, 2024, 08:23:18 AM
What do you forsee with the freshmen Brew scoring wise?
It will depend on roles. If Owens is indeed the sixth man, I think 8-10 ppg is realistic.
My guess is Parham is 9th or 10th on the depth chart. If that's the case, minimal impact. Probably no more than 2-3 per game with quite a few DNPs.
I cannot wait to see Ben Gold this season. He might just have some new wrinkles to his game and surprise some people. He is 100% my X factor guy this year and think he comes up big. I will add, this post is not doubling down Ben simply for the sake double down. He might prove to be the most improved player over the summer.
Yeah, Ben will figure it out. He's not been afraid of the moment in big games in his career. Hit big threes in all three BET games and the first two NCAA tournament games. He hit a 3 in both NCAAT games that broke a tie in a pretty big moment. To make it 58-55 with 11 minutes left against WKU after they'd tied it, and to make it 67-64 against CU with 8 minutes left.
He's got the shooting, I think we'll see more shot fakes this year. It was effective when he did it last year. He got into the lane and finished a few times at the end of the half against Creighton and against WKU. He also got into the lane and kicked it out to Jop for a three against WKU.
The positive plays are there. The skills are there. Game just needs to continue to slow down, and I think it will.
Quote from: Goose on October 17, 2024, 03:15:47 PM
I cannot wait to see Ben Gold this season. He might just have some new wrinkles to his game and surprise some people. He is 100% my X factor guy this year and think he comes up big. I will add, this post is not doubling down Ben simply for the sake double down. He might prove to be the most improved player over the summer.
You and I are on the same page with this. I see this as the greatest unknown of the off-season with the greatest potential impact on the ceiling of this team. Hope what you are hearing out of the Al is legitimate.
I'll believe it when I see it with Ben. And I'm really rooting for him. Hopefully the scrimmage was an aberration because his shot mechanics were a mess. Nothing looked in sync and I don't think he made a three. Defensively he held his own better on switches which was good to see.
Quote from: BM1090 on October 17, 2024, 03:45:37 PM
Yeah, Ben will figure it out. He's not been afraid of the moment in big games in his career. Hit big threes in all three BET games and the first two NCAA tournament games. He hit a 3 in both NCAAT games that broke a tie in a pretty big moment. To make it 58-55 with 11 minutes left against WKU after they'd tied it, and to make it 67-64 against CU with 8 minutes left.
He's got the shooting, I think we'll see more shot fakes this year. It was effective when he did it last year. He got into the lane and finished a few times at the end of the half against Creighton and against WKU. He also got into the lane and kicked it out to Jop for a three against WKU.
The positive plays are there. The skills are there. Game just needs to continue to slow down, and I think it will.
Agree. Good post.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 16, 2024, 04:32:39 PM
I don't see 20+ ppg from Kam or 18+ ppg from Chase. I'd think 18 ppg from Kam, 11 ppg from Chase. I don't think either will be over 40% from 3.
Kam is going to average more than 20.
I'll be pretty surprised if Kam doesn't average at least 20 points.
He averaged 17.2 last season; hard to believe he won't add another few points to his average now that TK and Oso (combined 28.7 ppg in 2023-24) are in the NBA.
Quote from: MU82 on October 18, 2024, 12:06:34 PM
I'll be pretty surprised if Kam doesn't average at least 20 points.
He averaged 17.2 last season; hard to believe he won't add another few points to his average now that TK and Oso (combined 28.7 ppg in 2023-24) are in the NBA.
Or think of it this way... he played ~70% of available minutes... down slightly from Soph year... could inch up, but not a lot. He was already a 29.5% shots guy with a great eFG% ... I think his eFG% will be lower... will his % shots really jump to 35ish to get to 20 ppg, or will he suddenly get to the line a lot more?
20 ppg is certainly a reasonable possibility.. but would not surprise me to see him slightly under
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 18, 2024, 01:26:50 PM
Or think of it this way... he played ~70% of available minutes... down slightly from Soph year... could inch up, but not a lot. He was already a 29.5% shots guy with a great eFG% ... I think his eFG% will be lower... will his % shots really jump to 35ish to get to 20 ppg, or will he suddenly get to the line a lot more?
20 ppg is certainly a reasonable possibility.. but would not surprise me to see him slightly under
That's reasonable.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 17, 2024, 07:56:15 AM
I've watched Jop play for three years, and people keep saying that he should put the ball on the floor and drive past people, and he just can't do it consistently. That's not going to change. He is a shooter, who more often than not will just try to back people down.
Exactly. If the improvement comes, it will be that he gets better at backing people down, along with maybe bumping his 3FG% a tick or two. I think he's going to have his best season, but it will be because he is better at doing what he already does.
Jop may be the key to our exact record. He's going to have games where he goes crazy and helps us to victory with gr8 shooting. He will also p33 on the leg. Just needs to be HOT (pawz) in tough/close games and have off nights when it no Matta
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 18, 2024, 03:41:28 PM
off nights when it no Matta
So only against Butler if their coach is on a leave of absence?
Quote from: Goose on October 17, 2024, 10:29:24 AM
I believe that Jop had the ability to learn to be a great post up scorer, but too many bad habits to break. Hopefully he has a strong shooting year because it will be needed.
lack of verticality to post up anyone over 5'11" with same verticality
Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 20, 2024, 07:13:48 AM
lack of verticality to post up anyone over 5'11" with same verticality
Again, watch the OT against Nova.
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 18, 2024, 03:41:28 PM
Jop may be the key to our exact record. He's going to have games where he goes crazy and helps us to victory with gr8 shooting. He will also p33 on the leg. Just needs to be HOT (pawz) in tough/close games and have off nights when it no Matta
I think you are right. But hopefully they are deep enough with other options to grind out a couple tough games without him being hot. That would significantly elevate the ceiling of this team.
Benny gotta prove it in games, that his shot can consistently fall.
But some of the pundits have been confident in him.
TO on the Field of 68 always been pro Gold. Dauster has said hes heard his shooting lights out all off season(again, lets see it)
Norlander on CBS said he expects a huge season from Gold.
Hope it happens
Ben will exceed Scoop expectations. Jop will always start, but his minutes will diminish as the year goes on.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on October 21, 2024, 07:54:06 PM
Benny gotta prove it in games, that his shot can consistently fall.
But some of the pundits have been confident in him.
TO on the Field of 68 always been pro Gold. Dauster has said hes heard his shooting lights out all off season(again, lets see it)
Norlander on CBS said he expects a huge season from Gold.
Hope it happens
If Ben can surprise MU will be very good, if not, Shaka can play Parham or Hamilton, Shaka has options this year.
Quote from: PJDunn on October 21, 2024, 08:48:53 PM
Ben will exceed Scoop expectations. Jop will always start, but his minutes will diminish as the year goes on.
Jop's minutes almost certainly will not be based on how well Ben plays.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on October 21, 2024, 07:54:06 PM
Benny gotta prove it in games, that his shot can consistently fall.
Last year, Gold was 4th on the team in made 3FG with 42.
Gold was also 4th on the team in 3FG% at 35.9%.
Compare that to Jop, who made 72 treys on 35.5%. But Jop also played 404 more minutes than Gold.
If you extrapolate Gold's three point shooting over the same minutes as Jop, Ben would have made 69 triples last year.
In summary, Ben has already proven to be a solid shooter, especially for a C.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 22, 2024, 08:42:14 AM
Last year, Gold was 4th on the team in made 3FG with 42.
Gold was also 4th on the team in 3FG% at 35.9%.
Compare that to Jop, who made 72 treys on 35.5%. But Jop also played 404 more minutes than Gold.
If you extrapolate Gold's three point shooting over the same minutes as Jop, Ben would have made 69 triples last year.
In summary, Ben has already proven to be a solid shooter, especially for a C.
Now do conference play breakdowns :/
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 22, 2024, 08:42:14 AM
Last year, Gold was 4th on the team in made 3FG with 42.
Gold was also 4th on the team in 3FG% at 35.9%.
Compare that to Jop, who made 72 treys on 35.5%. But Jop also played 404 more minutes than Gold.
If you extrapolate Gold's three point shooting over the same minutes as Jop, Ben would have made 69 triples last year.
In summary, Ben has already proven to be a solid shooter, especially for a C.
The keyword is consistency.
Ben was very streaky. He was also a bench player so I can cut slack. But Jop who can also be streaky has had a season near 40% in way higher reps
I think Ben is going to show a lot more offensive skills than just being a shooter. I think we are going to see him put the ball on the court a lot more than previous seasons.
Quote from: Goose on October 22, 2024, 09:37:34 AM
I think Ben is going to show a lot more offensive skills than just being a shooter. I think we are going to see him put the ball on the court a lot more than previous seasons.
It's often not a good thing when a big puts the ball on the floor, especially in traffic, so it will be interesting to see when he chooses to do it and what the results will be.
I'm not quite "Ben is NBA Bound" as you are, Goose, but I'm also high on him being a big-time contributor this season. There is no reason he can't improve significantly from last season, as so many of Shaka's players have done.
Also looking for big leaps from Ross and at least one of Lowery/Norman.
That's been one of the hallmarks of Shaka's time at Marquette, and I look for it to continue.
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 22, 2024, 08:46:04 AM
Now do conference play breakdowns :/
21-65 32.3%
But Ben's eFG% against top 100 and top 50 was higher than his season total. I am not concerned.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on October 22, 2024, 08:50:25 AM
The keyword is consistency.
Ben was very streaky. He was also a bench player so I can cut slack. But Jop who can also be streaky has had a season near 40% in way higher reps
All shooters have some degree of variance from game to game.
I guess I'd be fine with Ben shooting 35-37% from 3 again, my only qualm was that he seemed to be settling for too many last year.
That goes hand in hand with him not putting the ball on the deck enough, and not getting to the rim as much as he should/can.
Of course, making some of those open triples will open up the other stuff.
That said, doesn't matter what the percentages say, Ben is not as good of a shooter as Joplin, and everyone here should know that.
Jop can really shoot it, and this years team needs him to do that
Iirc, n BEast reg season games against non-tourney teams, Ben was like sub 22% 3fg%. Obviously he can and should best that by a hefty margin this season
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 22, 2024, 12:46:52 PM
Iirc, n BEast reg season games against non-tourney teams, Ben was like sub 22% 3fg%. Obviously he can and should best that by a hefty margin this season
**in. And a a period at the end of the sentence.
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 22, 2024, 08:46:04 AM
Now do conference play breakdowns :/
Gold shot 30/80 on threes in BE, BET, and NCAAT games. So he was actually better from the start of conference games forward than he was in non-con. He was also 8/15 for 53.3% in Kenpom Tier A and B non-con games.
He's just fine shooting the ball. Actually was GREAT in conference, tournament, and high level non-con games last year. 38/95 for 40% overall.
Overall numbers:
Conference play (BET excluded) - 32.3%
All Tier A - 37%
All Tier A/B - 41.4%
BET/NCAAT - 53.3%
Non-issue. He basically struggled against Rider, NIU, Southern, ND, Purdue, Butler, Georgetown, DePaul. And the one Creighton game when he had to fill in for Oso last minute.
Bg... 2/13... 15.4% 3fg as a starter.
#pray
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 22, 2024, 03:39:05 PM
Bg... 2/13... 15.4% 3fg as a starter.
#pray
Couple that with players not getting better year-to-year under this staff and yeah, #pray #longyearahead