Not my feeling. That of the "Field of 68 Podcast" starting at 10am central today, Wednesday May 30. Tune in and comment.
Considering people are searching for content, all I can say is "meh." Tax forms are the most exciting topic in MUBB right now.
Two ways MU does not make the tournament.
1. An epic string of injuries
2. 0 development among the young players.
Quote from: GoFastAndWin on May 29, 2024, 09:33:52 AM
Not my feeling. That of the "Field of 68 Podcast" starting at 10am central today, Wednesday May 30. Tune in and comment.
I am scared and afraid of what the season will bring. I suggest we skip it entirely and come back in 2025.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 29, 2024, 09:54:26 AM
I am scared and afraid of what the season will bring. I suggest we skip it entirely and come back in 2025.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjPkUzUXEAAKc_v?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Goodman is high, ridiculous take IMHO. These pundits are caught up in program needing tranfer portal guys to succeed, just plain
stupid.
They're making guesses. Some might be right. Or wrong.
But we're talking about their college basketball take in late May, so I guess they've done their job.
Quote from: GoFastAndWin on May 29, 2024, 09:33:52 AM
Not my feeling. That of the "Field of 68 Podcast" starting at 10am central today, Wednesday May 30. Tune in and comment.
Damn, I thought today was only the 29th
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 29, 2024, 10:39:46 AM
Damn, I thought today was only the 29th
Oops. My bad. To any who missed this, I would say, don't even bother looking it up. Dearth of off-season podcast material for sure.
It's May and it's just idle conversation.
That said, the conversation appears to be around three tiers being set up for 2024-25:
Well Positioned for NCAA
UConn
Creighton
Xavier (if Hunter and Freemantle stay healthy)
Positioned for NCAA Consideration
Marquette
St. John's
Providence
Butler
Not Positioned for NCAA Consideration
Villanova
Seton Hall
Georgetown
DePaul
Dauster is a tool who would still pledge a frat. Goodman is the ugliest human covering college sports and loves a hot take.
But I personally did enjoy that "no one thinks MU will be that good" vibe 22/23 had. Sign me up for more doubters in 24/25.
Quote from: DFW HOYA on May 29, 2024, 11:39:12 AM
It's May and it's just idle conversation.
That said, the conversation appears to be around three tiers being set up for 2024-25:
Well Positioned for NCAA
UConn
Creighton
Xavier (if Hunter and Freemantle stay healthy)
Positioned for NCAA Consideration
Marquette
St. John's
Providence
Butler
Not Positioned for NCAA Consideration
Villanova
Seton Hall
Georgetown
DePaul
If Marquette stays healthy, they are a no doubt NCAA team and IMO will finish top 3.
Quote from: DFW HOYA on May 29, 2024, 11:39:12 AM
It's May and it's just idle conversation.
That said, the conversation appears to be around three tiers being set up for 2024-25:
Well Positioned for NCAA
UConn
Creighton
Xavier (if Hunter and Freemantle stay healthy)
Positioned for NCAA Consideration
Marquette
St. John's
Providence
Butler
Not Positioned for NCAA Consideration
Villanova
Seton Hall
Georgetown
DePaul
Switch MU and X, drop Butler a level, and I agree
Goodman is an idiot. His first choice for breakout star after saying that was Ben Gold & Dauster suggested David Joplin.
Creighton looks good, but who knows probably will be the team they always are.
Xavier won't "be healthy".
UConn, Karaban might still leave them.
St John's doesn't have shooting.
Providence can't coach offense. And no one is talking about how Bryce Hopkins might actually just suck.
But heaven forbid we need to worry about where "points" will come from outside of Kam Jones. As if points arn't just a function of play time, and all that matters is the efficency of the points.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 29, 2024, 12:33:13 PM
Goodman is an idiot. His first choice for breakout star after saying that was Ben Gold & Dauster suggested David Joplin.
Last offseason, Jop focused on conditioning and defense. Perhaps this offseason he will focus on polishing his offensive game.
An improved handle, maybe a post game, more iso scoring, etc. Hopefully Jop can become more efficient while taking on a larger role.
Quote from: jfp61 on May 29, 2024, 12:43:25 PMBut heaven forbid we need to worry about where "points" will come from outside of Kam Jones. As if points arn't just a function of play time, and all that matters is the efficency of the points.
This is where we were two years ago when Justin and Darryl left. I think we did okay. I'm sure we will again.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 29, 2024, 12:51:43 PM
Last offseason, Jop focused on conditioning and defense. Perhaps this offseason he will focus on polishing his offensive game.
An improved handle, maybe a post game, more iso scoring, etc. Hopefully Jop can become more efficient while taking on a larger role.
I'm hoping for a killer mid-range game.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 29, 2024, 12:56:08 PM
I'm hoping for a killer mid-range game.
I actually do think we're going to see more mid range from him. But mostly in the 8-15 foot range. A fully actualized Jop hits that shot consistently, and I think Shaka gives him a shot to show that he can.
I hope he can and successful, even if it will lead to some here saying more of our team should be taking midrange shots.
Quote from: BM1090 on May 29, 2024, 01:01:00 PM
I actually do think we're going to see more mid range from him. But mostly in the 8-15 foot range. A fully actualized Jop hits that shot consistently, and I think Shaka gives him a shot to show that he can.
I hope he can and successful, even if it will lead to some here saying more of our team should be taking midrange shots.
There is zero evidence that we will see a midrange game from Jop or anyone else. They're not going to suddenly deviate from the offense.
I'm worried for anyone who thinks Goodman says anything of intelligence...
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 29, 2024, 01:06:39 PM
There is zero evidence that we will see a midrange game from Jop or anyone else. They're not going to suddenly deviate from the offense.
I may be misremembering but I think Morsell and to a lesser extent Lewis had the green light for mid-range jumpers. Maybe it was just the transition to the new system but maybe Shaka trusts certain guys to take them.
Joplin's game will be no different. He will just need to be better at it.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 29, 2024, 01:06:39 PM
There is zero evidence that we will see a midrange game from Jop or anyone else. They're not going to suddenly deviate from the offense.
Not sure about that. You need somewhere to throw the ball end of shot clock, and it can't always be Kam. Last ten seconds I think you'll see some Jop in the wide post both facing up and posting up. I'm not sure if that stats show he's effective or not there, but he's comfortable. Doesn't rush or overthink from that spot like he does on drives.
If Chase or maybe Tre develop some ability to create their own shot then I could be way off base. But as much as Shaka (rightfully) devalues midrange, he also values not turning the ball over and featuring his upperclassmen. And you need to have guys who can get a shot up in less than ideal situations. Kam to the hoop or driving, Jop post up and mid range seem to be the best options.
I'm not saying it'll be a featured part of the offense. It won't. But I think it'll be utilized more than it has been and it'll be good for both the team and Jop. Just like it was good for the team with Morsell.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 29, 2024, 01:30:54 PM
I may be misremembering but I think Morsell and to a lesser extent Lewis had the green light for mid-range jumpers. Maybe it was just the transition to the new system but maybe Shaka trusts certain guys to take them.
Those were guys with more established games in year one of a new system. They needed the proven guys to score because the kids weren't ready. But since then, these guys have been drilled on paint and threes. They know what the offense wants and what they are supposed to do in it. I don't expect any radical shot chart changes.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 29, 2024, 01:30:54 PM
I may be misremembering but I think Morsell and to a lesser extent Lewis had the green light for mid-range jumpers. Maybe it was just the transition to the new system but maybe Shaka trusts certain guys to take them.
Yes, that team that didn't have a top 60 offense.
Sounds like a hot take to drive viewership
Goodman has got a great track record.......i mean he picked Virginia to be a final 4 team last season in their preseason show!
Quote from: DFW HOYA on May 29, 2024, 11:39:12 AM
It's May and it's just idle conversation.
That said, the conversation appears to be around three tiers being set up for 2024-25:
Well Positioned for NCAA
UConn
Creighton
Xavier (if Hunter and Freemantle stay healthy)
Positioned for NCAA Consideration
Marquette
St. John's
Providence
Butler
Not Positioned for NCAA Consideration
Villanova
Seton Hall
Georgetown
DePaul
A team that is ranked inside the top 20 is only being considered for NCAA is a brain dead take.
These pundits are just trying to rile up engaged fan bases (read: Marquette) so they can get views.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on May 29, 2024, 02:21:07 PM
Sounds like a hot take to drive viewership
Exactly. Learning from Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith.
Field of 68 puts out a ton of content but it's low quality. It gives me something to listen to on my commute but no one on that platform provides anything of real substance in terms of analysis.
Quote from: MuMark on May 29, 2024, 02:25:38 PM
Goodman has got a great track record.......i mean he picked Virginia to be a final 4 team last season in their preseason show!
Hey, give the guy a break. He
meant to say, "last 4 in". Just a simple mistake.
Guess Dung was right
Quote from: Hards Alumni on May 29, 2024, 04:17:55 PM
A team that is ranked inside the top 20 is only being considered for NCAA is a brain dead take.
Wait, you're quoting preseason rankings to prove a point? haha
After losing Oso and Tyler, I still expect the team to "overachieve" as usual per Shaka. But I can understand some skepticism. The remaining guys still have a lot to prove without those two.
The projected starting 5 went toe to toe at Creighton with next to no bench help. Proof of concept, for me. I trust Tre and Zaide. If some combo of the young bigs can progress well enough to combine for 30 productive minutes, I can see a continuation of the last two seasons.
Sometimes I think pundits overemphasize players a program loses. I think the pundits underemphasize how a team rates to the rest of the conference, and other programs, after those other programs have their own players losses.
MU bringing back 3 Senior Starters and 2 Junior Experienced Rotation Players. That is an Excellent Foundation.
In addition MU may possibly be bringing back another Junior who was injured as well as 2 sophomores who had non garbage time experience playing in meaningful games.
So a total rotation of 7-8 players who have chemistry, and played successfully in big games , should be more than enough to compete in The Big East and make The 2025 Tournament.
My guess is the performance of The Juniors will determine the 2025 MU season achievements. Seems like the Juniors still have a higher potential level they can reach in terms of their individual performance.
Quote from: tower912 on May 29, 2024, 06:32:46 PM
The projected starting 5 went toe to toe at Creighton with next to no bench help. Proof of concept, for me. I trust Tre and Zaide. If some combo of the young bigs can progress well enough to combine for 30 productive minutes, I can see a continuation of the last two seasons.
That is the hope. I tend to agree with you because I trust Shaka knows what he is doing and his track record so far at MU is impressive. He has learned from his other stops and is sticking to his plan.
Who will be right? Shaka or Willie? Only time will tell.
I hope the Big East gets more than 3 bids.
We won't miss the tournament, but I would be very surprised if we finish in the top 3 in the Big East. Definitely a step back from the last 2 years.
Too many unanswered questions at this point in time and need a lot to go right and very little to go wrong. I just don't see anyone matching or surpassing Kolek and Oso in production on this roster, but we are a long way away from the start of the season.
Quote from: tower912 on May 29, 2024, 06:32:46 PM
The projected starting 5 went toe to toe at Creighton with next to no bench help. Proof of concept, for me. I trust Tre and Zaide. If some combo of the young bigs can progress well enough to combine for 30 productive minutes, I can see a continuation of the last two seasons.
Yes this.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 29, 2024, 06:17:07 PM
Wait, you're quoting preseason rankings to prove a point? haha
After losing Oso and Tyler, I still expect the team to "overachieve" as usual per Shaka. But I can understand some skepticism. The remaining guys still have a lot to prove without those two.
Yeah, fair enough. I still think there is no way they miss the tournament, and are likely vying for a 5 or higher seed.
I think that having an experienced, older team will once again play big for MU. My expectations are firm NCAA bid locked up by mid BE season and see what happens. In addition, I am expecting the new guys to play bigger roles than the past couple of seasons.
Quote from: Goose on May 30, 2024, 07:14:56 AM
I think that having an experienced, older team will once again play big for MU. My expectations are firm NCAA bid locked up by mid BE season and see what happens. In addition, I am expecting the new guys to play bigger roles than the past couple of seasons.
Same, I think Tre is our leap forward guy next year. Alternatively, we may get a surprise out of one of the young big guys... Caedin Hamilton.
I have them as a .500 team at the moment.
Hards
I think the two incoming guys, especially Owens will very nice roles this year. The last two years there has not been much available playing, especially in TK and Oso spots. I can see Jop, Ben getting 25+ minutes and Owens being 15 minute guy this year. We are going to start to see what a long team looks like under Shaka vs. a guard run team.
https://x.com/BBall_Movement/status/1795872005780037788?t=osD1JPDRZw-0NLpsR6po_A&s=19
Pickup games so obviously ignore the level of ball being played, but physically Zaide sure looks like a "dude" now as Shaka would say. He's going to be ready for an increased role this year. Cant wait to see the growth from him and Tre.
Quote from: Goose on May 30, 2024, 07:14:56 AM
I think that having an experienced, older team will once again play big for MU. My expectations are firm NCAA bid locked up by mid BE season and see what happens. In addition, I am expecting the new guys to play bigger roles than the past couple of seasons.
We have not had that for a very long time.
Quote from: Big Papi on May 29, 2024, 08:23:42 PM
We won't miss the tournament, but I would be very surprised if we finish in the top 3 in the Big East. Definitely a step back from the last 2 years.
Too many unanswered questions at this point in time and need a lot to go right and very little to go wrong. I just don't see anyone matching or surpassing Kolek and Oso in production on this roster, but we are a long way away from the start of the season.
I don't think you have to match or surpass TK's or Oso's production to have a quality team. As Goose says, experience matters. Kam and Stevie are three year starters. Joplin is a two year starter and was sixth man of the year. Chase has logged nice minutes and definitely made contributions in his first two seasons.
I think the people that cover college basketball have become lazy (not to be critical, just for lack of a better word) in covering the offseason. They look at individual replacement. This guy averaged 15 and he is replaced by this guy averaging 15 in the portal so they will be fine.
Marquette's replacement will be done in the aggregate which is a little more difficult to see.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 30, 2024, 07:50:51 AM
We have not had that for a very long time.
We had it last year. Our starting line-up was two seniors and three juniors.
Quote from: tower912 on May 29, 2024, 06:32:46 PM
The projected starting 5 went toe to toe at Creighton with next to no bench help. Proof of concept, for me. I trust Tre and Zaide. If some combo of the young bigs can progress well enough to combine for 30 productive minutes, I can see a continuation of the last two seasons.
MU lost by 14 and gained their last lead of the game less than 7 minutes into the contest. Tre 0/4 and zero points.
#COLE
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 30, 2024, 07:34:08 AM
I have them as a .500 team at the moment.
Herm probably will too.
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 30, 2024, 10:01:44 AM
MU lost by 14 and gained their last lead of the game less than 7 minutes into the contest. Tre 0/4 and zero points.
#COLE
Tight game on the road against a top 15 team for 36 minutes before playing only 6 caught up to them. Playing without Oso with no prep time. Players puking behind the bench. Heroic effort. 69-67 with 4:26 to go.
One offseason better? With some depth? Sign me up.
#pedantic
Season shot. Pack it in.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on May 30, 2024, 10:29:00 AM
Herm probably will too.
Well, if that's the case, they'll be far better than .500 then
Quote from: tower912 on May 30, 2024, 10:42:21 AM
Tight game on the road against a top 15 team for 36 minutes before playing only 6 caught up to them. Playing without Oso with no prep time. Players puking behind the bench. Heroic effort. 69-67 with 4:26 to go.
One offseason better? With some depth? Sign me up.
#pedantic
JB must not have even watched that game.
JB is absolutely correct about the final score, MU'S last lead, and Tre's pukeworthy stats.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on May 30, 2024, 10:29:00 AM
Herm probably will too.
I was overly concerned with last years non conference schedule. I loved our squad but over rated the relative strength of our non conference competition, was pretty close on conference versus where we ended up.
Was not the first time I over rated non conference opponents over the years . COLE
Learned my lesson, will not let the trauma of Wojo influence my season ouook thinking any more. We are in a beautiful new Shaka Era and I will just focus on our team and let schedule play it self out.
Quote from: Big Papi on May 29, 2024, 08:23:42 PM
Too many unanswered questions at this point in time and need a lot to go right and very little to go wrong. I just don't see anyone matching or surpassing Kolek and Oso in production on this roster, but we are a long way away from the start of the season.
Sounds like most takes on Marquette in May 2022.
What if Shaka, who has proven over and over again that he is pretty darn good at developing players, proves it yet again?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 30, 2024, 08:56:45 AM
We had it last year. Our starting line-up was two seniors and three juniors.
That is my point, last year and this year.
Quote from: Herman Cain on May 30, 2024, 12:22:58 PM
I was overly concerned with last years non conference schedule. I loved our squad but over rated the relative strength of our non conference competition, was pretty close on conference versus where we ended up.
Was not the first time I over rated non conference opponents over the years . COLE
Learned my lesson, will not let the trauma of Wojo influence my season ouook thinking any more. We are in a beautiful new Shaka Era and I will just focus on our team and let schedule play it self out.
Marquette's non conference was just about as good as advertised. Illinois was better but Kansas was worse. Wisconsin was better but UCLA was worse.
We played a 3 and 5 seed on the road, a 1 and 4 seed (who would've been higher if not for injuries) on a neutral, and a 7 seed at home.
You didn't overrate our schedule. You underrated our team. You constantly proclaimed the team was a "greater than the sum of its parts" team. We had 2 guys who will be on an NBA roster next year, and guys like Kam, Ben, and Chase could get there someday too.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 30, 2024, 01:42:28 PM
Marquette's non conference was just about as good as advertised. Illinois was better but Kansas was worse. Wisconsin was better but UCLA was worse.
We played a 3 and 5 seed on the road, a 1 and 4 seed (who would've been higher if not for injuries) on a neutral, and a 7 seed at home.
You didn't overrate our schedule. You underrated our team. You constantly proclaimed the team was a "greater than the sum of its parts" team. We had 2 guys who will be on an NBA roster next year, and guys like Kam, Ben, and Chase could get there someday too.
Yeah, that was all a fancy way for 9-9-9 to say: "I was wrong. Again."
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 30, 2024, 08:08:12 AM
I don't think you have to match or surpass TK's or Oso's production to have a quality team. As Goose says, experience matters. Kam and Stevie are three year starters. Joplin is a two year starter and was sixth man of the year. Chase has logged nice minutes and definitely made contributions in his first two seasons.
I understand where you and others are coming from. I look at it as with all the pieces we have coming back and coming in, I feel we are taking a step back from the last 2 years. Where we were a top 10 team the last 2 years, I think we are outside the top 20 right now. A quality team that has definite weaknesses.
TK and Oso are huge shoes to fill. They were big time players that produced in big time moments. I feel that our lack of desire to go grab a player to fill in at some of these areas of weaknesses is a huge, missed opportunity to keep us in that top 10-15 teams in the country.
We are good team. This is a very good program. We will make the tournament unless something happens to Kam. He is the stud that can't miss a stretch of games. I think that Shaka is a little too stubborn. Hope I am wrong.
Quote from: Big Papi on May 30, 2024, 04:02:15 PM
1) I feel that our lack of desire to go grab a player to fill in at some of these areas of weaknesses is a huge, missed opportunity.
2) I think that Shaka is a little too stubborn.
1) This issue has been beaten to death. Get
over it!
2) Because of 1), I honestly think it is
you, not Shaka, who is being stubborn.
I think of Shaka's system as a long-term strategy, interlinking the seasons with the promise of the development of players rather than "fill in some of these areas of weakness" via the portal. I see Shaka's plan as unfolding over the next several seasons.
We will make the tourney. If our team takes a bit of a step down this season (very possible), it will not shake my faith in Shaka. Not even a little. But to some scoopers it would be a renewed call for going to the portal, a rallying cry for some sort of hybrid system that in reality would be no system at all. Leave hybrids to the auto industry.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on May 30, 2024, 04:47:11 PM
1) This issue has been beaten to death. Get over it!
2) Because of 1), I honestly think it is you, not Shaka, who is being stubborn.
I think of Shaka's system as a long-term strategy, interlinking the seasons with the promise of the development of players rather than "fill in some of these areas of weakness" via the portal. I see Shaka's plan as unfolding over the next several seasons.
We will make the tourney. If our team takes a bit of a step down this season (very possible), it will not shake my faith in Shaka. Not even a little. But to some scoopers it would be a renewed call for going to the portal, a rallying cry for some sort of hybrid system that in reality would be no system at all. Leave hybrids to the auto industry.
I think that really hits the nail on the head. After building his first roster, Shaka has prioritized retention and development. In the process, he delivered the two highest seeds in Marquette history and gone further in the NCAA tournament each year than the one before. If at some point this model stops working, then it can be questioned, but at this point, it's working about as well as could be hoped for.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on May 30, 2024, 04:47:11 PM
1) This issue has been beaten to death. Get over it!
2) Because of 1), I honestly think it is you, not Shaka, who is being stubborn.
I think of Shaka's system as a long-term strategy, interlinking the seasons with the promise of the development of players rather than "fill in some of these areas of weakness" via the portal. I see Shaka's plan as unfolding over the next several seasons.
We will make the tourney. If our team takes a bit of a step down this season (very possible), it will not shake my faith in Shaka. Not even a little. But to some scoopers it would be a renewed call for going to the portal, a rallying cry for some sort of hybrid system that in reality would be no system at all. Leave hybrids to the auto industry.
Oh I forgot, we should only wear blue and gold colored glasses here and not question or discuss anything.
If you are sick of the topic because it is beaten to death than don't read, reply or acknowledge. Last I looked this was a discussion board with various opinions.
Quote from: Big Papi on May 30, 2024, 06:15:56 PM
Oh I forgot, we should only wear blue and gold colored glasses here and not question or discuss anything.
If you are sick of the topic because it is beaten to death than don't read, reply or acknowledge. Last I looked this was a discussion board with various opinions.
So discussion means no one can criticize complaints that have thus far been proven unfounded? Sounds like you are less interested in discussion and more interested in people just blindly agreeing with you.
Quote from: Big Papi on May 30, 2024, 06:15:56 PM
Oh I forgot, we should only wear blue and gold colored glasses here and not question or discuss anything.
If you are sick of the topic because it is beaten to death than don't read, reply or acknowledge. Last I looked this was a discussion board with various opinions.
I offered my various opinion. And I will read, reply, or acknowledge anytime I damn well want to.
Y'all are 95% agreeing, 5% disagreeing.
Quote from: tower912 on May 30, 2024, 07:14:32 PM
Y'all are 95% agreeing, 5% disagreeing.
Lies!! It's 96%, 4%!!!!
Bravo.
I was triggered by the word "stubborn" in Papi's post in describing Shaka. In its context, I read it as a criticism of Shaka, and I believe there have been others here who used the same word to describe their frustration with Shaka's refusal to go to the portal. In fairness to Papi, he had valid points regarding the team overall, but that does not mean that I am in full agreement with him.
So, why did "stubborn" trigger me? Because there is little, if any, acknowledgement by many "portal fans" that we had no transfers out, that a high-level portal player would be a starter-leaving a player who thought his time to shine had come sitting on the bench- and leaving the rest of the team nervous about being "portalled over" in the future, and also leaving prospects like Miletic having serious doubts about Shaka's words vs. his actions.
Although there would be no way to prove it undisputedly at season's end, I think a high-level transfer would have made the team stronger, but only for this coming season. The consequences of adding the transfer are stated in the above paragraph. Accepting the possibility (or likelihood if you please) of a step down (hopefully only a slight one) this season is inherent] in Shaka's long-term strategy and MO. Shaka is planning for the upcoming and future seasons with his system. Perhaps it is time to revive the "five years to judge" mantra.
I will shortly be heading out of town for the day, but will leave by stirring the pot on the portal question:
Do you think Shaka would have gone to the portal if Kam left, or would he stay with his no-portal strategy?
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on May 31, 2024, 08:08:36 AM
I was triggered by the word "stubborn" in Papi's post in describing Shaka. In its context, I read it as a criticism of Shaka, and I believe there have been others here who used the same word to describe their frustration with Shaka's refusal to go to the portal. In fairness to Papi, he had valid points regarding the team overall, but that does not mean that I am in full agreement with him.
So, why did "stubborn" trigger me? Because there is little, if any, acknowledgement by many "portal fans" that we had no transfers out, that a high-level portal player would be a starter-leaving a player who thought his time to shine had come sitting on the bench- and leaving the rest of the team nervous about being "portalled over" in the future, and also leaving prospects like Miletic having serious doubts about Shaka's words vs. his actions.
Although there would be no way to prove it undisputedly at season's end, I think a high-level transfer would have made the team stronger, but only for this coming season. The consequences of adding the transfer are stated in the above paragraph. Accepting the possibility (or likelihood if you please) of a step down (hopefully only a slight one) this season is inherent] in Shaka's long-term strategy and MO. Shaka is planning for the upcoming and future seasons with his system. Perhaps it is time to revive the "five years to judge" mantra.
I will shortly be heading out of town for the day, but will leave by stirring the pot on the portal question:
Do you think Shaka would have gone to the portal if Kam left, or would he stay with his no-portal strategy?
I agree with all of this, and don't know the answer to the last question. But I do think the loyalty we are seeing from players is not in small part due to the loyalty reciprocated. But if we had some transfer levels that were normal, say that three players departed and we were adding the equivalent of Joplin, Gold, and Lowery in the portal, the people who think we don't take enough transfers would be over the moon.
Do I see guys like Pop Isaacs going to Creighton, Tarris Reid going to UConn, and John Hugley going to Xavier and think "boy, those would be nice on our roster"? Sure. But I'm not at all convinced that 1-2 years of any of them is going to be better than the 3-4 years we're getting out of guys like Tre Norman, Al Amadou, or Damarius Owens who might decide to go elsewhere had we taken those transfers, or the potential long-term culture damage that would do to the recruitment of a Ian Miletic or Adrian Stevens who are being recruited in large part based on relationships and culture.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on May 31, 2024, 08:08:36 AM
I was triggered by the word "stubborn" in Papi's post in describing Shaka. In its context, I read it as a criticism of Shaka, and I believe there have been others here who used the same word to describe their frustration with Shaka's refusal to go to the portal. In fairness to Papi, he had valid points regarding the team overall, but that does not mean that I am in full agreement with him.
So, why did "stubborn" trigger me? Because there is little, if any, acknowledgement by many "portal fans" that we had no transfers out, that a high-level portal player would be a starter-leaving a player who thought his time to shine had come sitting on the bench- and leaving the rest of the team nervous about being "portalled over" in the future, and also leaving prospects like Miletic having serious doubts about Shaka's words vs. his actions.
Although there would be no way to prove it undisputedly at season's end, I think a high-level transfer would have made the team stronger, but only for this coming season. The consequences of adding the transfer are stated in the above paragraph. Accepting the possibility (or likelihood if you please) of a step down (hopefully only a slight one) this season is inherent] in Shaka's long-term strategy and MO. Shaka is planning for the upcoming and future seasons with his system. Perhaps it is time to revive the "five years to judge" mantra.
I will shortly be heading out of town for the day, but will leave by stirring the pot on the portal question:
Do you think Shaka would have gone to the portal if Kam left, or would he stay with his no-portal strategy?
I think Shaka has his system and believes in it. I think we're in a far better place as a program than we have been since Al was around, but we still need to see the very top end results that we saw with Crean and Buzz. I don't think Shaka is infallible.
I'm good with Shaka standing pat this year, as I don't think we're one player away from a Final Four or National Title team. Build from within, give yourself a chance at a top 6 seed, and see what happens in March. With NC State down in the 2nd half to Louisville and needing to win that and then 4 more games in the ACC Tournament just to make the NCAA Tournament, nobody saw them as a Final Four team. We'll see what happens once we get to the Tournament.
I do think Shaka made an error in not replacing OMax last year. We had 1 year left of Oso and Kolek, generational program players. We were coming off a double BE title and a disappointing 2nd round exit, but still a 2 seed. Returning everyone else, if you replace OMax you are a favorite to win an NCAA title. Look at what Purdue, who has a similar reputation to MU's in player retention, did. They went out and got Lance Jones and went from a first round exit to a national title game. And nobody got scared off! Heck, had players been scared off it still would've been well worth it. We didn't add, and we kind of just stayed where we were, if not took a little step back. Rosters and years like the one we had going into last year don't come around often. I think Shaka made a mistake not capitalizing on that.
Also, where are the guys who would be scared off by adding more talent going to go that aren't also constantly looking to add more talent? If they want to play high major basketball in today's day and age, that's the reality they're going to have to live with. If they don't want to, they can transfer down to UWM and be "the guy" for as long as they have eligibility.
Serious question - xfer portal era started in 2021. If Shaka is still at Texas or a blueblood, does he still take zero transfers? It would be easier to get a xfer to come to those blueblood and high end football schools.
Who's scared of adding talent? IMO it's more of a "you recruited me preaching this culture and now your actions are not reflecting that culture".
Quote from: MUbiz on May 31, 2024, 10:13:04 AM
Serious question - xfer portal era started in 2021. If Shaka is still at Texas or a blueblood, does he still take zero transfers? It would be easier to get a xfer to come to those blueblood and high end football schools.
Texas isn't a blue blood basketball school, and I doubt football has anything to do with basketball transfers.
Quote from: MUbiz on May 31, 2024, 10:13:04 AM
Serious question - xfer portal era started in 2021. If Shaka is still at Texas or a blueblood, does he still take zero transfers? It would be easier to get a xfer to come to those blueblood and high end football schools.
I think its impossible to answer this "what if"
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on May 31, 2024, 10:22:49 AM
I think its impossible to answer this "what if"
Coleman Hawkins said he wants to go to a football school and eliminated the Big East as a possible transfer destination (he also eliminated other Big Ten schools). May be an outlier tho..
Quote from: MUbiz on May 31, 2024, 10:13:04 AM
Serious question - xfer portal era started in 2021. If Shaka is still at Texas or a blueblood, does he still take zero transfers? It would be easier to get a xfer to come to those blueblood and high end football schools.
Hard to say, but his last two Texas teams didn't have any significant transfers. He did have Dylan Osetkowski and Elijah Mitrou-Long come in while he was there, and this was before the broad transfer era we see now, but I go back to that first Athletic article where he had the note "first two years, nothing but culture" as his guiding light. I suspect he was trying to get that in place at Texas before he came here and he would be doing the same thing regardless of where he was.
Quote from: Big Papi on May 30, 2024, 04:02:15 PM
I understand where you and others are coming from. I look at it as with all the pieces we have coming back and coming in, I feel we are taking a step back from the last 2 years. Where we were a top 10 team the last 2 years, I think we are outside the top 20 right now. A quality team that has definite weaknesses.
TK and Oso are huge shoes to fill. They were big time players that produced in big time moments. I feel that our lack of desire to go grab a player to fill in at some of these areas of weaknesses is a huge, missed opportunity to keep us in that top 10-15 teams in the country.
We are good team. This is a very good program. We will make the tournament unless something happens to Kam. He is the stud that can't miss a stretch of games. I think that Shaka is a little too stubborn. Hope I am wrong.
I am a HUGE Shaka believer/supporter and there is nothing I find even a little offensive in this post. In fact, other than the word "too" in the penultimate sentence I think it's a fair estimate of where we are going into next season. Successful coaches tend to be stubborn - they have a plan that they believe in. Personally I think (as long as we eliminate "too") it's a positive quality.
Good conversation, folks.
I like a lot of what both wades and brew say, even though they say somewhat different things. We also don't know everything that's going on. For example, do we know that Shaka wouldn't have taken a very good transfer last offseason had the "fit" and NIL been right? Maybe some do know that; I sure don't.
What I have seen during the recruiting that's going on right now is that at least 2 players we'd like to have at Marquette have come right out and said that Shaka's recruit-develop-retain philosophy is one of the main reasons they are considering MU. So it's a sales pitch as well as a culture.
It's gonna be interesting to see what happens during the next few years, that's for sure.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on May 30, 2024, 06:58:32 PM
I offered my various opinion. And I will read, reply, or acknowledge anytime I damn well want to.
whoa...it's all good.
The team 3-3 without their all American PG. 3 losses they were in for a majority of the game against the national champion and another S16 team. 3 wins were against teams that had small bubble hopes. I've never been a big believer in chemistry, but this culture and this team continue to defy every expectation against them.
Quote from: MUDPT on June 01, 2024, 07:05:44 AM
The team 3-3 without their all American PG. 3 losses they were in for a majority of the game against the national champion and another S16 team. 3 wins were against teams that had small bubble hopes. I've never been a big believer in chemistry, but this culture and this team continue to defy every expectation against them.
I wasn't a big chemistry culture guy until Shaka TBH. Then you hear NFL head coaches talking about Shaka and culture and think there is something to it.
https://x.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1785354412283568622?t=nTWGOC7bmdhhy8zoXQxp5g&s=19
Quote from: MUbiz on June 01, 2024, 11:08:53 AM
I wasn't a big chemistry culture guy until Shaka TBH. Then you hear NFL head coaches talking about Shaka and culture and think there is something to it.
https://x.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1785354412283568622?t=nTWGOC7bmdhhy8zoXQxp5g&s=19
Super bowl champion who has all his assistants get hired away every year NFL head coach
Hey...maybe they could miss the tournament.
Kam and Stevie in their latest podcast said most of the time they come out of a timeout not knowing what plays they are running because they got distracted by jumbotrons. Said they usually have to ask Tyler and Oso what is going on out of the huddle 😂😅