Given that Marquette has multiple NBA prospects and that this will be a much-discussed topic all season, I thought it could have its own thread.
The Athletic's Sam Vecenie is out with a new mock today, and he has Oso going 35th overall, three picks ahead of Zach Edey.
Vecenie has Kolek going with the last pick in the draft - #58 (two teams had to forfeit their second-round picks).
Other Big East players in Vecenie's mock:
5. Donovan Clingan ... 6. Stephon Castle ... 10. Garwey Dual ... 14. Trey Alexander ... 46. Bryce Hopkins ... 48. Alex Karaban ... 51. Baylor Scheierman ... 52. Ryan Kalkbrenner.
https://theathletic.com/5009208/2023/11/13/nba-mock-draft-2024-alexandre-sarr/?campaign=5888993&source=dailyemail
Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2023, 07:50:46 AM
Given that Marquette has multiple NBA prospects and that this will be a much-discussed topic all season, I thought it could have its own thread.
The Athletic's Sam Vecenie is out with a new mock today, and he has Oso going 35th overall, three picks ahead of Zach Edey.
Vecenie has Kolek going with the last pick in the draft - #58 (two teams had to forfeit their second-round picks).
Other Big East players in Vecenie's mock:
5. Donovan Clingan ... 6. Stephon Castle ... 10. Garwey Dual ... 14. Trey Alexander ... 46. Bryce Hopkins ... 48. Alex Karaban ... 51. Baylor Scheierman ... 52. Ryan Kalkbrenner.
https://theathletic.com/5009208/2023/11/13/nba-mock-draft-2024-alexandre-sarr/?campaign=5888993&source=dailyemail
They gowne. Next man up, aina?
Heard Sam has knocked Tyler to #98 after the injury
Take this with a grain of salt because I am wrong roughly 100% of the time at these things, but I think Kam Jones and Chase Ross are the only two players on our roster that have a chance to have any kind of career in the NBA. Oso and Tyler have floor vision that cannot be taught, but lack the necessary physical attributes, IMO.
Tyler being paid very well at MU, better then the G League, would not be surprised if he comes back
Quote from: CTWarrior on November 13, 2023, 09:45:22 AM
Take this with a grain of salt because I am wrong roughly 100% of the time at these things, but I think Kam Jones and Chase Ross are the only two players on our roster that have a chance to have any kind of career in the NBA. Oso and Tyler have floor vision that cannot be taught, but lack the necessary physical attributes, IMO.
Oso can do everything but shoot.
I have never followed him that closely. Why is Zach Edey so low?
Quote from: warriorchick on November 13, 2023, 11:04:20 AM
I have never followed him that closely. Why is Zach Edey so low?
One dimensional, plays very traditional big man style that's been out of the nba for awhile now, not seen as having a huge athletic upside.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 13, 2023, 11:04:20 AM
I have never followed him that closely. Why is Zach Edey so low?
Can't guard in space.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 13, 2023, 11:11:10 AM
Can't guard in space.
Not that great a defender on Earth, either.
Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2023, 11:13:53 AM
Not that great a defender on Earth, either.
Finally something actually funny posted on here.
Well done
Your drunk posts are usually good for a laugh.
Been a few good ones :o
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 13, 2023, 10:01:58 AM
Oso can do everything but shoot.
Shooting is a big thing to be missing. He lacks strength, too. I just don't see it for him at the next level. Like I said, I'm usually wrong about things like this.
I am not an NBA watcher, but I have heard a couple of draft "experts" say that this year's draft is fairly thin compared to the last couple of years - perhaps creating opportunity for players that would not have been drafted last year, for instance.
While Oso is a wonderful college player, I too have a hard time envisioning him in the NBA, though a career in Europe is certainly a possibility for him. Same for Tyler, though I think he actually has a little better shot at making an NBA roster. I do agree that Chase Ross and Kam Jones seem to be logical NBA candidates.
I think I have read somewhere that Oso has already indicated that he will not be back next year, and it is hard to imagine Tyler returning. So, depending on how things play out this year, MU could be looking at losing four of its top six players. But, that's part of what makes college ball so enjoyable - the landscape is always changing.
Oso has some crazy passing ability for his size. If a shooting coach believes they can build him into a competent shooter they'll take a flyer on him in the second round imo. I don't see a situation where he's a first rounder given his height and what we've seen his skill set to be. Good college center but in the NBA he's a PF and that requires the ability to shoot the 3
Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 13, 2023, 02:24:41 PM
Oso has some crazy passing ability for his size. If a shooting coach believes they can build him into a competent shooter they'll take a flyer on him in the second round imo. I don't see a situation where he's a first rounder given his height and what we've seen his skill set to be. Good college center but in the NBA he's a PF and that requires the ability to shoot the 3
Huge fan of Oso, but was very surprised to see he did not make significant changes to his shooting form over the offseason. Even his free throws have a very low release point. Seems he is far too good of an athlete to have an awkward and inconsistent release. Old habits die hard I guess. Still, love his game overall and think he will have a great season.
Quote from: StillWarriors on November 13, 2023, 02:35:39 PM
Huge fan of Oso, but was very surprised to see he did not make significant changes to his shooting form over the offseason. Even his free throws have a very low release point. Seems he is far too good of an athlete to have an awkward and inconsistent release. Old habits die hard I guess. Still, love his game overall and think he will have a great season.
Yeah I dont really care about him taking 3s much if at all. But so far through 2 games his free throws look not improved. That I was hoping he would work at.
Especially considering he lacks a consistent ability to finish through contact so most of the times his trips to the line are shooting 2 and not a plus 1.
Quote from: rgoode57 on November 13, 2023, 02:17:38 PM
I am not an NBA watcher, but I have heard a couple of draft "experts" say that this year's draft is fairly thin compared to the last couple of years - perhaps creating opportunity for players that would not have been drafted last year, for instance.
While Oso is a wonderful college player, I too have a hard time envisioning him in the NBA, though a career in Europe is certainly a possibility for him. Same for Tyler, though I think he actually has a little better shot at making an NBA roster. I do agree that Chase Ross and Kam Jones seem to be logical NBA candidates.
I think I have read somewhere that Oso has already indicated that he will not be back next year, and it is hard to imagine Tyler returning. So, depending on how things play out this year, MU could be looking at losing four of its top six players. But, that's part of what makes college ball so enjoyable - the landscape is always changing.
High chance of NBA, guaranteed European talent. At the highest level.
Latest ESPN Mock:
18. Oso
33. Kolek
Quote from: Pakuni on November 30, 2023, 09:22:10 AM
Latest ESPN Mock:
18. Oso
33. Kolek
Oso needs to come back and work on his game
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 30, 2023, 10:23:02 AM
Oso needs to come back and work on his game
Haven't seen the treys yet.
I know not a lot of people have tracked him since he left the program, but Jose Perez has tremendous NBA talent and potential. His ball handling abilities, court vision, multi dimensional defending (on and off the court), and a knack for finding a bucket will earn him a lot of money in the league. NBA scouts have been watching him, but imo not close enough. With Zach LaVine currently sitting at 2 points on the year for the bulls, they would be stupid to pass up Jose. Culturally and team wise you can not find a better player. He is a blood in/blood out type of guy in the locker room. Just my two cents. Ring out!
Quote from: BobWildLoyalist on November 30, 2023, 10:38:27 AM
I know not a lot of people have tracked him since he left the program, but Jose Perez has tremendous NBA talent and potential. His ball handling abilities, court vision, multi dimensional defending (on and off the court), and a knack for finding a bucket will earn him a lot of money in the league. NBA scouts have been watching him, but imo not close enough. With Zach LaVine currently sitting at 2 points on the year for the bulls, they would be stupid to pass up Jose. Culturally and team wise you can not find a better player. He is a blood in/blood out type of guy in the locker room. Just my two cents. Ring out!
Jose Perez is 25 years old and playing in his sixth year of college basketball at his fifth institution. He isn't going to have a significant NBA career. I doubt he even logs a minute.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 30, 2023, 10:41:49 AM
Jose Perez is 25 years old and playing in his sixth year of college basketball at his fifth institution. He isn't going to have a significant NBA career. I doubt he even logs a minute.
That was one of those posts where for the sake of the board I instantly assumed he just avoided teal for a response like yours
The Lavine stuff to the end sold it.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 30, 2023, 10:53:05 AM
That was one of those posts where for the sake of the board I instantly assumed he just avoided teal for a response like yours
The Lavine stuff to the end sold it.
He's mentioned Perez multiple times in similar fashion. I have no idea if its a bit or what. If so, it's an oddly specific one.,
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 30, 2023, 10:41:49 AM
Jose Perez is 25 years old and playing in his sixth year of college basketball at his fifth institution. He isn't going to have a significant NBA career. I doubt he even logs a minute.
I'm pretty sure Jose Perez is now 42 years old.
It's not a bit. Once upon a time the loyalist thought Dan Fitzgerald was going to be a star in the league.
Having a decent season with ASU.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 30, 2023, 09:22:10 AM
Latest ESPN Mock:
18. Oso
33. Kolek
ESPN take with a grain of salt
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 30, 2023, 10:55:24 AM
He's mentioned Perez multiple times in similar fashion. I have no idea if its a bit or what. If so, it's an oddly specific one.,
Lots of odd, repetitive bits on Scoop.
Quote from: BCHoopster on November 13, 2023, 10:01:46 AM
Tyler being paid very well at MU, better then the G League, would not be surprised if he comes back
Also, he doesn't want to get drafted by the Jazz and have his development stunted in the G League.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 30, 2023, 10:41:49 AM
Jose Perez is 25 years old and playing in his sixth year of college basketball at his fifth institution. He isn't going to have a significant NBA career. I doubt he even logs a minute.
Never doubt a winner. Someone who has survived for as long as Jose has in high level D1 basketball programs is enormously successful. Someone who is 25 is in the prime of their life. Someone who has 6 years of basketball experience in power conferences knows how to play. Jose is a man with high basketball IQ. He also has managed to avoid getting a real job. Which not a lot of people on board can say. Please stand down Sultan.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 30, 2023, 10:55:24 AM
He's mentioned Perez multiple times in similar fashion. I have no idea if its a bit or what. If so, it's an oddly specific one.,
I assumed it was a bot, but maybe a bit? A bot doing a bit?
Quote from: swoopem on November 30, 2023, 11:30:19 AM
It's not a bit. Once upon a time the loyalist thought Dan Fitzgerald was going to be a star in the league.
Dan Fitzgerald is a fine man who played his role the best he could. Sometimes you call the league and the league doesnt answer. Its about what happens when you get up off the mat.
Quote from: BobWildLoyalist on November 30, 2023, 12:41:42 PM
Never doubt a winner. Someone who has survived for as long as Jose has in high level D1 basketball programs is enormously successful. Someone who is 25 is in the prime of their life. Someone who has 6 years of basketball experience in power conferences knows how to play. Jose is a man with high basketball IQ. He also has managed to avoid getting a real job. Which not a lot of people on board can say. Please stand down Sultan.
This is awesome.
He certainly doesn't have 6 years of experience in power conferences, though. Unless the Big South and MAAC are power conferences.
Anyhoo ...
That's pretty cool about Oso and Kolek. Wouldn't be surprised to see Kam's name start popping up, too, if he continues to perform as he has.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 30, 2023, 10:41:49 AM
Jose Perez is 25 years old and playing in his sixth year of college basketball at his fifth institution. He isn't going to have a significant NBA career. I doubt he even logs a minute.
In some fairness to Jose, the school changed coaches at 3 of his 5 stops. (Wojo, Maisello, Huggins)
Jose Perez, Serial Coach Killer
Quote from: Pakuni on November 30, 2023, 09:22:10 AM
Latest ESPN Mock:
18. Oso
33. Kolek
Hilarious to see previous commentary and bearishness and then have Oso pop up as a near lottery pick.
People who watch A LOT of basketball for a living have been raving about Oso. He can't shoot from deep yet, but he's super athletic, an incredible passer for his size, and runs the floor very very well. He reminds me of Javale McGee, minus the bonehead streak. Or more recently, look at Evan Mobley. Same general size and build and he's not popping off from deep with any consistency or danger.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 30, 2023, 02:11:35 PM
Hilarious to see previous commentary and bearishness and then have Oso pop up as a near lottery pick.
People who watch A LOT of basketball for a living have been raving about Oso. He can't shoot from deep yet, but he's super athletic, an incredible passer for his size, and runs the floor very very well. He reminds me of Javale McGee, minus the bonehead streak. Or more recently, look at Evan Mobley. Same general size and build and he's not popping off from deep with any consistency or danger.
NBA scouts don't know ball
Quote from: JWags85 on November 30, 2023, 02:11:35 PM
Hilarious to see previous commentary and bearishness and then have Oso pop up as a near lottery pick.
People who watch A LOT of basketball for a living have been raving about Oso. He can't shoot from deep yet, but he's super athletic, an incredible passer for his size, and runs the floor very very well. He reminds me of Javale McGee, minus the bonehead streak. Or more recently, look at Evan Mobley. Same general size and build and he's not popping off from deep with any consistency or danger.
McGee & Mobley? Wat
Usages, dr%, blk% (!!!) all tell us there's quite a diff
Quote from: JWags85 on November 30, 2023, 02:11:35 PM
Hilarious to see previous commentary and bearishness and then have Oso pop up as a near lottery pick.
People who watch A LOT of basketball for a living have been raving about Oso. He can't shoot from deep yet, but he's super athletic, an incredible passer for his size, and runs the floor very very well. He reminds me of Javale McGee, minus the bonehead streak. Or more recently, look at Evan Mobley. Same general size and build and he's not popping off from deep with any consistency or danger.
If only somebody on scoop had been saying since spring that Oso would be drafted.
Quote from: tower912 on November 30, 2023, 02:39:15 PM
If only somebody on scoop had been saying since spring that Oso would be drafted.
Yep there were plenty of scoopers on the Oso train.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 30, 2023, 02:21:52 PM
McGee & Mobley? Wat
Usages, dr%, blk% (!!!) all tell us there's quite a diff
Apparently NBA scouts feel the same way about blk% (at least for Marquette prospects) as you do about FT%. Nuttin' mattas!
Quote from: MU82 on November 30, 2023, 06:23:26 PM
Apparently NBA scouts feel the same way about blk% (at least for Marquette prospects) as you do about FT%. Nuttin' mattas!
Jolps 0.7% blk percentage compared to Omax at 0.5% has caused our defensive efficiency to go from 43rd to 14th
Quote from: JWags85 on November 30, 2023, 02:11:35 PM
Hilarious to see previous commentary and bearishness and then have Oso pop up as a near lottery pick.
I see what you did there
Quote from: BrewCity83 on November 30, 2023, 01:25:31 PM
Jose Perez, Serial Coach Killer
Wow seriously! Didn't realize he was at ASU this year. Hurley has never made it out of the round of 64, I realize they were just in the tournament last year but how much longer does he get? They're going nowhere fast this season and it's been 9 years. Gotta think unless they're the most apathetic fan base around his seat would at least be modestly warm (token contract extension he signed this year notwithstanding). A 4/5 coaches-fired record would be amazing!
In the past 40 years, ASU has 8 NCAA appearances. Hurley is responsible for half of those. There's a chance he could be their second winningest coach this year and will certainly be that if he gets another year. He's not great, but as a program, they are pretty bad. I'd argue he's their second most successful coach of all time.
Not exactly a "mock draft" but Vecenie today put Oso at No. 12 on his big board and Tyler at 26: https://theathletic.com/5107064/2023/12/06/nba-draft-2024-big-board-isiah-collier-reed-sheppard/?source=user_shared_article
Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on December 06, 2023, 12:33:46 PM
Not exactly a "mock draft" but Vecenie today put Oso at No. 12 on his big board and Tyler at 26: https://theathletic.com/5107064/2023/12/06/nba-draft-2024-big-board-isiah-collier-reed-sheppard/?source=user_shared_article
Scoop is going to be shocked by this revelation
Rico
Many on here were shocked last year when every announcer mentioned the scouts at the game to see Omax. Oso, Kolek and Ben Gold get the most love from the announcers and analysts in regard to the big picture. I cannot remember the former UConn player that I heard interviewed last year about MU, and he said multiple times that Oso will play in the NBA for a decade+.
:P
Quote from: Goose on December 06, 2023, 01:43:29 PM
Rico
Many on here were shocked last year when every announcer mentioned the scouts at the game to see Omax. Oso, Kolek and Ben Gold get the most love from the announcers and analysts in regard to the big picture. I cannot remember the former UConn player that I heard interviewed last year about MU, and he said multiple times that Oso will play in the NBA for a decade+.
I wasn't on the OMax doubters list. Givony had him top 60 like in April of '22 and he was one of the better evaluators and had access to what scouts and other evaluators were saying.
When Vencie puts those guys in the top 30, he isn't doing so blindly. As Marquette fans, the desire is for them to comeback cuz that's what we want. Truth is, these guys and the staff know their worth outside the program and won't hold them back
Oso is one of the most versatile bigs in the country. He has shown he can hang with and defend any college big. He can handle the ball and initiate offense. The NBA loves unicorns like him. They all assume that they can help him develop a jumper.
So, no surprise. Watch the NBA. Watch how the good teams run their offenses. Watch how they switch on defense. It is easy to project Oso into that. They love long, athletic, versatile bigs.
Rico
My goal is that Oso and Kolek provide MU fans a ton more excitement over the upcoming months and create a legacy that will be remembered for many years to come. The value of them being first round picks is extremely important for the program. Their job at MU hopefully ends in April and then on to playing for real money.
Quote from: BobWildLoyalist on November 30, 2023, 12:41:42 PM
Never doubt a winner. Someone who has survived for as long as Jose has in high level D1 basketball programs is enormously successful. Someone who is 25 is in the prime of their life. Someone who has 6 years of basketball experience in power conferences knows how to play. Jose is a man with high basketball IQ. He also has managed to avoid getting a real job. Which not a lot of people on board can say. Please stand down Sultan.
Bump.
Jose Perez is now a professional basketball player. Don't care what anyone says, the sky is the limit for this kid. Very few people can call themselves pro basketball players and play at the high level environments he has. Stay up Jose! Proud of this young man.
https://arizonasports.com/story/3544292/jose-perez-makes-professional-debut-after-leaving-arizona-state/?show=comments
https://arizonasports.com/story/3544316/jose-perez-bobby-hurley-leaving-arizona-state/
New mock from The Athletic has TK going #29 to Denver and Oso at #34 to Portland.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 19, 2024, 09:41:12 AM
New mock from The Athletic has TK going #29 to Denver and Oso at #34 to Portland.
Hope we get to see 3 more weeks from these guys. Hope everyone has been enjoying them the last few months.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 19, 2024, 10:17:46 AM
Hope we get to see 3 more weeks from these guys. Hope everyone has been enjoying them the last few months.
The Bleacher Report mock also has Kam going in the second round.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on March 19, 2024, 10:26:17 AM
The Bleacher Report mock also has Kam going in the second round.
No team with 3 NBA draft picks (probable) should miss the Final Four. And if Gold can improve his defense from his 2nd to his 4th year as much as Oso, it is probably 4 draft picks.
Of course all they all need to be healthy.
Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2024, 11:31:16 AM
No team with 3 NBA draft picks (probable) should miss the Final Four. And if Gold can improve his defense from his 2nd to his 4th year as much as Oso, it is probably 4 draft picks.
Of course all they all need to be healthy.
I mean, Duke and Kentucky have that many draft picks every single year. And usually high firsts, not boarder line firsts and down the road maybe NBA players.
Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2024, 11:31:16 AM
No team with 3 NBA draft picks (probable) should miss the Final Four. And if Gold can improve his defense from his 2nd to his 4th year as much as Oso, it is probably 4 draft picks.
Of course all they all need to be healthy.
Happens every year, usually to multiple teams.
Last year, it was Arkansas and UCLA.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 19, 2024, 11:37:50 AM
I mean, Duke and Kentucky have that many draft picks every single year. And usually high firsts, not boarder line firsts and down the road maybe NBA players.
In the same mock draft, Kentucky has four projected draft choices and two projected lottery picks. I'd be surprised if they could hang with UConn. Projecting the NCAA results based on NBA draft projections will not lead to very accurate results.
Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2024, 11:31:16 AM
No team with 3 NBA draft picks (probable) should miss the Final Four. And if Gold can improve his defense from his 2nd to his 4th year as much as Oso, it is probably 4 draft picks.
Of course all they all need to be healthy.
So what happens if we play Colorado?
Oso and Tyler aren't ready.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 19, 2024, 11:47:50 AM
So what happens if we play Colorado?
They concern me. Two high first round picks? I'm still scarred from Ja Morant, so I'd rather not see them.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2024, 11:48:20 AM
Oso and Tyler aren't ready.
They will be after 2 more year's at Marquette - 3 tops!
Colorado was a bubble team for a reason. Having a great team goes well beyond having a lottery pick.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 19, 2024, 12:42:02 PM
Colorado was a bubble team for a reason. Having a great team goes well beyond having a lottery pick.
Have won 8 of 9. 26 in KenPom, more like a 7-seed which is what you get in round 2! 5th in the nation in 3-point shooting.
Nonetheless, you're correct. Marquette will/would be favored against them and should beat them
I think that for the good of their alma mater, TyKo, Oso, and Kam should play rock paper scissors. The winner declares for the draft. The other two stay at Marquette for another year.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on March 19, 2024, 10:26:17 AM
The Bleacher Report mock also has Kam going in the second round.
Been saying for some time now that Kam can have an NBA career. Selfishly, it would be great for Marquette to get one more season out of him, but we'll see what kind of advice he gets.
Anyhoo ... Kam, TK and Oso can worry about all that after these next 6 wins.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2024, 12:46:00 PM
5th in the nation in 3-point shooting.
5th in the nation in 3P%
323rd in 3PA/FGA (rate at which they shoot 3Ps)
They are very accurate but only shoot a handful of threes a game. Most of their damage is done inside, they only take wide open catch and shoot threes.
Saw a Kolek comp on Twitter that I think is probably the best yet - Goran Dragic. About the same size and build, with similar scoring and passing abilities once they get downhill. Tyler will need to improve his outside shooting, but IMO that will come. Not sure if he will get to that level, but the game is similar.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 13, 2023, 02:24:41 PM
Oso has some crazy passing ability for his size. If a shooting coach believes they can build him into a competent shooter they'll take a flyer on him in the second round imo. I don't see a situation where he's a first rounder given his height and what we've seen his skill set to be. Good college center but in the NBA he's a PF and that requires the ability to shoot the 3
Then he needs to come back and work on his game. Bigs are now expected to be able to shoot in the NBA.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 25, 2024, 05:15:05 PM
Then he needs to come back and work on his game. Bigs are now expected to be able to shoot in the NBA.
Nope.
New ESPN mock:
Kolek #29
Oso ... undrafted
Quote from: Pakuni on April 02, 2024, 09:02:56 AM
New ESPN mock:
Kolek #29
Oso ... undrafted
Not surprised by either.
This is very strange to say, but I hope Oso has been dealing with an issue. Something that is being or has been addressed and that NBA scouts can wrap their heads around to explain the level of play the past 3-4 weeks.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 02, 2024, 09:02:56 AM
New ESPN mock:
Kolek #29
Oso ... undrafted
Yeah, Oso more or less disappearing in the BET and NCAA crushed his draft stock.
Oso had 20 points against Providence, when his arm was practically yanked out of its socket by Oduro. He then was too passive against Clingan before he went to the bench early with some kind of leg injury. He did not have his usual bounce in the NCAAs, and I can't help but think it's related to those injuries.
But yes, performing poorly on the big stage had to have hurt him. Hopefully he'll be 100% and will get wow the scouts again at the Combine and in individual workouts for teams.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 25, 2024, 05:15:05 PM
Then he needs to come back and work on his game. Bigs are now expected to be able to shoot in the NBA.
I think he's more likely to play in Europe than come back to MU. He seems ready to be done with college.
I have seen Oso in early second round in the ringer and NBA draft.net boards yet. But yes, he fell off the ESPN board.
Oso didn't help his stock, but I also don't think that he hurt it all that much. NBA drafts on potential, if an NBA team thought they could develop him three weeks ago, I don't know why they wouldn't still.
Also, outside of the very obvious top of draft decisions, I feel like mock drafts are really all over the place.
The Ringer, updated last week still had Oso as a first rounder, and TKO as a second rounder. Both behind Devin Carter who hasn't even played the last few weeks and Reed Sheppard who ended his season with a grand total of 3 points in Kentucky's loss to Oakland. Think fans tend to dive too deep into box scores and don't look at what a player has the potential to be in 3-5 years.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft
He should come back to get his doctorate so that he can continue to entertain fans, some of whom will crap on him if he doesn't meet their expectations.
Quote from: MU82 on April 02, 2024, 09:47:58 AM
He should come back to get his doctorate so that he can continue to entertain fans, some of whom will crap on him if he doesn't meet their expectations.
No different than the NBA
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 02, 2024, 09:49:11 AM
No different than the NBA
All pro sports are entertainment. MU, Bucks, Brewers, all are here for our entertainment.
Let's see where Oso's mocked after he tests. There are some NBA teams that will love him and not care too much about his tourney performance
Quote from: NickelDimer on April 02, 2024, 11:28:12 AM
Let's see where Oso's mocked after he tests. There are some NBA teams that will love him and not care too much about his tourney performance
This is what it is about. It all comes down to individual workouts for teams. I, too, think he was injured, so I think after the workouts, he will be somewhere in the 30-40 range.
I still think Oso goes in the first round. It just takes one team that thinks they have the right plan for him. IMO, the handful of really good Oso games is what that one team will remember.
Quote from: Goose on April 02, 2024, 01:41:37 PM
I still think Oso goes in the first round. It just takes one team that thinks they have the right plan for him. IMO, the handful of really good Oso games is what that one team will remember.
I agree, except I think Oso had more than a handful of really good games.
Until the last couple weeks, he was one of the very best bigs in the country. He was consistently outstanding, his unique skill set at both ends of the court bedeviled opponents, and he outplayed the likes of Dickinson and Kalkbrenner, and even Clingan the second time.
We'll see soon enough how good scouts' memories of him are, but I'm not gonna let a couple bad weeks - when I'm pretty sure he was battling injuries - change my perception of him.
If you read anyone posting something along the lines of Oso needs to come back and work on his game in college as a 22 year-old, go ahead and ignore them. They don't know ball.
What about his lack of a jump shot? You're right, he should definitely comeback to a program that specializes on jump shots and work on that there.
Well, he had a bad March. Great point. Looking back at the last handful of drafts, you see a litany of players whose careers ended because of a bad month, erasing all the hours of film and scouting done on them prior.
Going to be a long off-season
82
I agree Oso had more than a handful, but I thought he had 4-5 exceptional games and looked like one of the best big in the country those nights. IMO, he did not help himself the last two weeks and did not hurt himself either. That said, he probably hurt his chances of climbing the board in the NCAA, but likely did not cost himself much.
Quote from: Goose on April 02, 2024, 02:06:44 PM
82
I agree Oso had more than a handful, but I thought he had 4-5 exceptional games and looked like one of the best big in the country those nights. IMO, he did not help himself the last two weeks and did not hurt himself either. That said, he probably hurt his chances of climbing the board in the NCAA, but likely did not cost himself much.
Fair enough, Goose.
We sure were lucky to get to watch Oso and TK, especially these last 2 years.
Quote from: Goose on April 02, 2024, 01:41:37 PM
I still think Oso goes in the first round. It just takes one team that thinks they have the right plan for him. IMO, the handful of really good Oso games is what that one team will remember.
Maybe, but I'm somewhat skeptical. Oso had a great career at MU both on and off the court - a special person and player. His one drawback (aside from shooting) was that he went through periods when he was passive. Those periods lasted much longer in the BE tournament and the NCAAs - the biggest stages, the brightest lights. I think he hurt himself in the draft but I hope I'm wrong.
Kolek up to #20 on The Athletic's 2024 NBA Draft "big board." One ahead of Edey.
Oso at #42.
A few others of note ...
Two UConn players in the top 5 - Castle at #3 and Clingan at #5. Also, Karaban at #33, Spencer at #43, Newton at #50.
Devin Carter at #15, with commentary that he'll be an immediate contributor because of his defensive ability.
Two Colorado players in top 20 - Williams at #9 and de Silva at #19. Plus Simpson at #51. That was a good team MU beat.
Scheierman at #27 and Alexander at #37.
Quote from: MU82 on April 19, 2024, 11:04:25 AM
Kolek up to #20 on The Athletic's 2024 NBA Draft "big board." One ahead of Edey.
Oso at #42.
A few others of note ...
Two UConn players in the top 5 - Castle at #3 and Clingan at #5. Also, Karaban at #33, Spencer at #43, Newton at #50.
Devin Carter at #15, with commentary that he'll be an immediate contributor because of his defensive ability.
Two Colorado players in top 20 - Williams at #9 and de Silva at #19. Plus Simpson at #51. That was a good team MU beat.
Scheierman at #27 and Alexander at #37.
Good luck to anyone taking Baylor Scheierman in the first round.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 19, 2024, 11:24:20 AM
Good luck to anyone taking Baylor Scheierman in the first round.
He's way better than Sam Hauser who has played a lot this year. He'll be a scorer off the bench - maybe even as a rookie.
Hauser shot 44% from 3 at Marquette and Virginia.
In 2 seasons of high-major hoops, Scheierman shot 37%.
Hauser was considered an elite shooter. We'll see if Scheierman gets similar consideration. Scheierman was a better rebounder FWIW. Neither won any defensive awards.
I'm hearing this is like a historically terrible draft class
Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2024, 11:52:48 AM
He's way better than Sam Hauser who has played a lot this year. He'll be a scorer off the bench - maybe even as a rookie.
Good luck to anyone taking Baylor Scheierman in the 1st round.
Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2024, 11:52:48 AM
He's way better than Sam Hauser who has played a lot this year. He'll be a scorer off the bench - maybe even as a rookie.
Not only is he not "way better," he isn't even "better."
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 12:08:17 PM
Not only is he not "way better," he isn't even "better."
He's a better teammate
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 12:08:17 PM
Not only is he not "way better," he isn't even "better."
I shouldn't have used the word 'way', but I have no doubt he is better.
13.8/7.8/3.9 to 13.3/6.1/2.1 Plus Baylor is a better athlete - certainly not elite, but better. Baylor is also able to create his own shot, which Sam was never good at.
But, we'll see.
Tyler in the top 30, huh.
CBS Sports, updated mock yesterday, has Kolek going #27.
Quote from: MU82 on April 19, 2024, 04:03:30 PM
CBS Sports, updated mock yesterday, has Kolek going #27.
He'll never play in the NBA and needs to come back
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 19, 2024, 04:46:35 PM
He'll never play in the NBA and needs to come back
He will play in NBA.
Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2024, 11:10:31 PM
You're new here?
Meh, sometimes I miss the posts authors name...
Quote from: #UnleashSean on April 21, 2024, 08:30:38 AM
Meh, sometimes I miss the posts authors name...
Some of Scoop's top basketball minds said Tyler wont play in the NBA or isn't ready
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 21, 2024, 08:35:27 AM
Some of Scoop's top basketball minds said Tyler wont play in the NBA or isn't ready
Oso needs to come back for another year.
So does OMax.
Quote from: MU82 on April 21, 2024, 08:57:14 AM
Oso needs to come back for another year.
So does OMax.
Looking forward to Tyler, Oso, O-Max, and Justin using their covid years next season.
With the NBA Draft Lottery now over, Yahoo Sports' Krysten Peek updated her mock draft.
https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-nba-mock-draft-70-who-will-the-hawks-take-at-no-1-our-projections-for-every-pick-with-lottery-order-now-set-195807070.html?.tsrc=1317
She has Kolek going 29th to Utah, saying:
The Jazz hit on Keyonte George last year and could use an older, established playmaker in the backcourt with George as they continue their rebuild. The lefty point guard finds creative ways to finish when needed and was one of the best passing guards this season.
She also has Oso going #52 to Washington.
The Athletic's Sam Vecenie also did a post-lottery update. He's got TK going 24th to the Knicks, saying:
Kolek was exploding onto the scene before suffering an oblique injury that held him out the Big East tournament. From Jan. 15 until Feb. 25, Marquette went 10-1 as Kolek averaged 16.9 points and 9.6 assists per game while shooting 48.6 percent from the field and 44 percent from 3. In total, Kolek rightfully won All-American honors on his way to 15.3 points and 7.7 assists per game.
Kolek is a crafty guard. I'm not convinced he can even dunk, but he knows exactly how to play off two feet and is an elite distributor in ball screens. He made a big leap as a shooter this past season, drilling 38.8 percent from 3 while looking much more confident pulling up when opportunities arise. Kolek must prove he has the foot speed to hold up on defense in the NBA, and he'll need to prove he can create separation with the ball in his hands against better defenders. But any team looking for a backup guard could plug Kolek in early.
Indiana's T.J. McConnell is a name that often comes up as a comparison for Kolek.
Vecenie has Oso going #41 to Philly.
Hot take: Tyler goes in lottery to San Antonio who needs a pick and roll point guard to pair with the Wembanyama.
Quote from: milwaukee ex-pat on May 13, 2024, 08:26:00 AM
Hot take: Tyler goes in lottery to San Antonio who needs a pick and roll point guard to pair with the Wembanyama.
Ha! That would be great.
The Athletic's John Hollinger ranked his top 20 players in the draft and has Oso at #19, as one of his two "sleepers." That said, he also says Oso isn't seen as a first-round pick.
Kolek not in his top 20.
His second sleeper, fwiw, is Trey Alexander.
https://theathletic.com/5484657/2024/05/13/nba-draft-2024-top-prospects-players-hollinger/
I'm a firm believer in bigs who can pass — that trait tends to indicate outsized feel that can worm itself into other facets of the game — and Ighodaro is the best passing big in the draft. He is very comfortable operating from the elbows and hitting cutters or operating dribble handoffs, and his size and leaping ability should make him at least a decent rim runner on the tail end of those actions. Ighodaro can also handle the ball well enough that Marquette occasionally ran inverted pick-and-rolls for him. While he's not an outside shooting threat, he does have a nice floater game he can get to when the rim is blocked off.
Ighodaro grades out very well in the switching type of perimeter defense that most NBA teams demand from their bigs now. He gets up on guards, not letting them waltz into off-the-dribble 3s and instead sliding with them when they try to get to the cup. He seems almost more comfortable with that than going against players his own size; he doesn't play with much physicality or toughness. Players who spin and stop on him, or post players who get into his body, can give him some trouble.
Ighodaro isn't seen as a first-rounder because he falls short on a lot of the traditional big-guy stuff. He's not an elite rim protector, with a decent but hardly overwhelming 5.6 percent block rate in Big East games, and he's a phantom on the glass with a career 12.1 percent rebound rate in conference play. Similarly, he shies away from attacking the rim at times, settling for the floater even when it seemed he could get to the rim. Those factors turn off some scouts and could limit him to being a backup, but a rotation big isn't a bad outcome this deep in a weak draft. That feels like Ighodaro's floor given his other skills.
Oso listed on the Combine site as
6'9.50" WITHOUT shoes (no weight listed) for anyone that cares about that kinda thing.
No listings for Kolek yet.
Some others that caught my eye.
Edey at 7'3.75" - 299 lbs.
Clingan at 7'1.75" - 282 lbs.
Castle at 6'2.25" (!?!?!?!?!) Not sure I believe that measurement but that's what it says!
Tyler Kolek's NBA Draft Combine Measurements:
6'1.25" without shoes
6'2.75" wingspan
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on May 13, 2024, 10:56:50 AM
Oso listed on the Combine site as
6'9.50" WITHOUT shoes (no weight listed) for anyone that cares about that kinda thing.
No listings for Kolek yet.
Some others that caught my eye.
Edey at 7'3.75" - 299 lbs.
Clingan at 7'1.75" - 282 lbs.
Castle at 6'2.25" (!?!?!?!?!) Not sure I believe that measurement but that's what it says!
Probably not good for Oso - Using the NBA's combine site, Oso is the first player measured at the combine that's over 6'9" with a wingspan under 7'0" since Luka Samanic in 2020.
Only other player in the last 10 combines is Frank Kaminksy in 2016.
https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1790053720123691158
Quote from: MUbiz on May 13, 2024, 11:53:33 AM
Probably not good for Oso - Using the NBA's combine site, Oso is the first player measured at the combine that's over 6'9" with a wingspan under 7'0" since Luka Samanic in 2020.
Only other player in the last 10 combines is Frank Kaminksy in 2016.
https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1790053720123691158
Should have come back to get his degree
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on May 13, 2024, 10:56:50 AM
Oso listed on the Combine site as
6'9.50" WITHOUT shoes (no weight listed) for anyone that cares about that kinda thing.
No listings for Kolek yet.
Some others that caught my eye.
Edey at 7'3.75" - 299 lbs.
Clingan at 7'1.75" - 282 lbs.
Castle at 6'2.25" (!?!?!?!?!) Not sure I believe that measurement but that's what it says!
Looks like it is now known that those measurements for Castle are inaccurate.
Whoever enters those put Devin Carter's metrics under Steph Castle...so it is Carter that is 6'2.25".
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 13, 2024, 11:54:27 AM
Should have come back to get his degree
His 3rd degree.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on May 13, 2024, 11:58:18 AM
Looks like it is now known that those measurements for Castle are inaccurate.
Whoever enters those put Devin Carter's metrics under Steph Castle...so it is Carter that is 6'2.25".
It had Kolek's standing reach (not wingspan)at 6-11. That has to be a misprint as well.
Quote from: tower912 on May 13, 2024, 12:31:57 PM
His 3rd degree.
He was joking. No need to give him the third degree
;D
Quote from: MUbiz on May 13, 2024, 11:53:33 AM
Probably not good for Oso - Using the NBA's combine site, Oso is the first player measured at the combine that's over 6'9" with a wingspan under 7'0" since Luka Samanic in 2020.
Only other player in the last 10 combines is Frank Kaminksy in 2016.
https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1790053720123691158
Kyle Filipowski joined the list
Kyle Filipowski 6-10.75 229.8 6-10.5 8-11
I know Shaka had a bunch of big guys drafted first round when he was at Texas but did he have any guards? Could Kolek be his first guard to go in the first round?
That's funny. Marquette is a school that is viewed as only developing big men!
Quote from: swoopem on May 15, 2024, 07:24:26 AM
I know Shaka had a bunch of big guys drafted first round when he was at Texas but did he have any guards? Could Kolek be his first guard to go in the first round?
This is going way back, but Shaka had Briante Weber at VCU, who probably would have been 1st round if not for an ACL tear. Other than that, I can't think of a gard going first under Shaka at Texas.
Quote from: MUbiz on May 15, 2024, 08:28:10 AM
This is going way back, but Shaka had Briante Weber at VCU, who probably would have been 1st round if not for an ACL tear. Other than that, I can't think of a gard going first under Shaka at Texas.
Found the Freudian Badger.
Quote from: MUbiz on May 13, 2024, 11:39:58 AM
Tyler Kolek's NBA Draft Combine Measurements:
6'1.25" without shoes
6'2.75" wingspan
How does that compare to Diener's combine measurements?
Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on May 16, 2024, 02:37:22 PM
How does that compare to Diener's combine measurements?
5'11.75" for both I think
Most recent mock draft by Yahoo Sports has Kolek going #22 to Phoenix and Oso #51 to Washington.
https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-nba-mock-draft-80-zaccharie-risacher-takes-over-no-1-spot-plus-our-latest-intel-and-projections-for-every-pick-141517144.html?.tsrc=1317
On TK: There are rumors of a promise for Kolek in the first round, and the Suns make sense for the established point guard who found ways to score at every level this season. He can come in right away and be the lead guard for the second unit with how well he reads the game and facilitates for others.
Kolek to the Knicks at #24 and Oso to the Magic at #47 in The Athletic's latest mock.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5528904/2024/06/05/nba-mock-draft-2024-vecenie-alex-sarr/?campaign=5888993&source=dailyemail&userId=3738391
Quote from: MU82 on June 06, 2024, 09:41:03 AM
Kolek to the Knicks at #24 and Oso to the Magic at #47 in The Athletic's latest mock.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5528904/2024/06/05/nba-mock-draft-2024-vecenie-alex-sarr/?campaign=5888993&source=dailyemail&userId=3738391
Isn't it quite interesting that thru 1/2-3/4 of the season it seemed like Oso was the likely 1st rd pick and TyKo the likely 2nd rd pick.... Then, Tyler missed like a month of action and came back to play a few games and played well when he returned, while Oso pretty much played all the way thru but stumbled down the stretch and all the sudden voila, draft fates just switched.
I'm sure some details are off, but that's the way my mind remembers it at least.
Just interesting given than both guys have enough body of work where "what have you done for me lately" shouldn't mean a single iota
Quote from: DoctorV on June 06, 2024, 10:29:38 PM
Isn't it quite interesting that thru 1/2-3/4 of the season it seemed like Oso was the likely 1st rd pick and TyKo the likely 2nd rd pick.... Then, Tyler missed like a month of action and came back to play a few games and played well when he returned, while Oso pretty much played all the way thru but stumbled down the stretch and all the sudden voila, draft fates just switched.
I'm sure some details are off, but that's the way my mind remembers it at least.
Just interesting given than both guys have enough body of work where "what have you done for me lately" shouldn't mean a single iota
Oso is one of my all-time favorite Marquette players but we have to be honest - he didn't play very well when the most was on the line at the end of the season. The medical degree I got from a box of Cracker Jacks isn't worth much, but I think he was still hurting from the injury he sustained late in the season. Regardless, NBA scouts have eyes, and they saw that he was less explosive and less able to contribute.
Kolek had a sensational year and, after being hurt, returned from injury to play very well. He also has a skill-set fitting a specific need that many NBA teams have. Reading various mock drafts, the feeling is that he would be a team's backup PG from day 1, able to contribute a solid 10-20 mpg. Oso would need to be in a certain system that could take advantage of his unique talents.
Quote from: DoctorV on June 06, 2024, 10:29:38 PM
Isn't it quite interesting that thru 1/2-3/4 of the season it seemed like Oso was the likely 1st rd pick and TyKo the likely 2nd rd pick.... Then, Tyler missed like a month of action and came back to play a few games and played well when he returned, while Oso pretty much played all the way thru but stumbled down the stretch and all the sudden voila, draft fates just switched.
I'm sure some details are off, but that's the way my mind remembers it at least.
Just interesting given than both guys have enough body of work where "what have you done for me lately" shouldn't mean a single iota
The better the competition, the bigger the stage, the more meaningful the games - NBA scouts pay attention to that stuff. And when the lights were the brightest last year Kolek shined and Oso stumbled.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 07, 2024, 09:55:26 AM
The better the competition, the bigger the stage, the more meaningful the games - NBA scouts pay attention to that stuff. And when the lights were the brightest last year Kolek shined and Oso stumbled.
In the biggest most meaningful game of the year, Reed Sheppard scored 3 points on 1-5 shooting in an upset loss to a 14 seed. He's likely going to be a top 5 pick.
Things the NBA cares about:
1. Who can you guard.
2. Can you shoot.
3. How do you project out 4 years from now (when you'd get your first post rookie contract)
Yeah I think NBA scouts care very little about Oso's late season performance. It's about if he can guard NBA bigs and develop a broader offensive game.
I think they look at everything. Oso's body of work and what it suggests about his future obviously would matter more, but Oso playing relatively poorly down the stretch didn't do him any favors.
And/or maybe the mock drafters were just wrong when Oso was being projected as a first-rounder in January and February. That's possible too.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 07, 2024, 09:55:26 AM
The better the competition, the bigger the stage, the more meaningful the games - NBA scouts pay attention to that stuff. And when the lights were the brightest last year Kolek shined and Oso stumbled.
😂
I think Osos measurables hurt him more than anything. We knew he was small for a non shooting big guy but his meaurables were shockingly bad. I knew he don't have extendo arms but I was surprised when he came in like the 2nd percentile for wingspan of NBA centers.
NBA teams are arrogant. They believe that if a player is lacking a skill, they will be able to develop them to have that skill. You can't develop length
Quote from: MU82 on June 07, 2024, 10:16:11 AM
I think they look at everything. Oso's body of work and what it suggests about his future obviously would matter more, but Oso playing relatively poorly down the stretch didn't do him any favors.
And/or maybe the mock drafters were just wrong when Oso was being projected as a first-rounder in January and February. That's possible too.
The great thing about these mock drafts if youone doesn't like where someone is slotted, just do a little search and there will be a mock that agrees with one's opinion.
This one has Oso as a first rounder, so it has to be right
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft/)
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 07, 2024, 11:09:57 AM
The great thing about these mock drafts if youone doesn't like where someone is slotted, just do a little search and there will be a mock that agrees with one's opinion.
This one has Oso as a first rounder, so it has to be right
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft/)
Thanks.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 07, 2024, 10:43:56 AM
I think Osos measurables hurt him more than anything. We knew he was small for a non shooting big guy but his meaurables were shockingly bad. I knew he don't have extendo arms but I was surprised when he came in like the 2nd percentile for wingspan of NBA centers.
NBA teams are arrogant. They believe that if a player is lacking a skill, they will be able to develop them to have that skill. You can't develop length
True.
If I were the Bucks I would take Tyko at #23 if he's still on the board.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 08, 2024, 10:26:54 AM
If I were the Bucks I would take Tyko at #23 if he's still on the board.
I'd take anyone that could defend on the perimeter.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 08, 2024, 10:26:54 AM
If I were the Bucks I would take Tyko at #23 if he's still on the board.
I would not. As wades says, they more need a perimeter defender than a back up PG.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 08, 2024, 10:27:31 AM
I'd take anyone that could defend on the perimeter.
They have a lot of roster work to do.
Bucks: Carlton Carrrington - if he is still available.
Some interesting things from Jonathan Givony at ESPN. Oso has dropped to #57 prospect. But I don't think that is an issue. Only certain teams will want him anyway. I think a good comparison might be Kyle Anderson who has had a long NBA career so far.
The NBA doesn't look kindly on traditional low post centers. 6 months ago, Clingan and Edey were both seen as mid-2nd rounders. Givony now has Clingan as #3 prospect and Edey at #16.
Quote from: Jockey on June 09, 2024, 01:13:35 PM
Bucks: Carlton Carrrington - if he is still available.
Some interesting things from Jonathan Givony at ESPN. Oso has dropped to #57 prospect. But I don't think that is an issue. Only certain teams will want him anyway. I think a good comparison might be Kyle Anderson who has had a long NBA career so far.
The NBA doesn't look kindly on traditional low post centers. 6 months ago, Clingan and Edey were both seen as mid-2nd rounders. Givony now has Clingan as #3 prospect and Edey at #16.
Jockey
Sounds contradictory. Is the NBA then now convinced that Clingan and Edey are not traditional low post centers?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 09, 2024, 03:27:13 PM
Jockey
Sounds contradictory. Is the NBA then now convinced that Clingan and Edey are not traditional low post centers?
Neither will be drafted due to their low post offense. Both are seen as defensive rim protectors.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2024, 04:11:43 PM
Neither will be drafted due to their low post offense. Both are seen as defensive rim protectors.
Definitely right on Clingan.
I think they will look at Edey Ada little more of a scorer - maybe the 3rd option on a team.
Oso crapped da bed and it will cost him big bucks. Wouldn't be shockin' if he went undrafted, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 09, 2024, 05:02:22 PM
Oso crapped da bed and it will cost him big bucks. Wouldn't be shockin' if he went undrafted, hey?
Good. Pulling hard for him to fail.
Quote from: Jockey on June 09, 2024, 01:13:35 PM
Bucks: Carlton Carrrington - if he is still available.
Some interesting things from Jonathan Givony at ESPN. Oso has dropped to #57 prospect. But I don't think that is an issue. Only certain teams will want him anyway. I think a good comparison might be Kyle Anderson who has had a long NBA career so far.
The NBA doesn't look kindly on traditional low post centers. 6 months ago, Clingan and Edey were both seen as mid-2nd rounders. Givony now has Clingan as #3 prospect and Edey at #16.
Kyle Anderson from the Wolves? I don't really see much of a comparison.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 09, 2024, 06:24:58 PM
Good. Pulling hard for him to fail.
You have an aversion to the truth, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 09, 2024, 06:54:44 PM
You have an aversion to the truth, hey?
No, I'm not a Trump supporter. Either way, I'm pulling against Oso
Well, wish upon a star, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 09, 2024, 07:03:01 PM
Well, wish upon a star, hey?
That he doesn't get drafted? I will.
https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/1800878863180071157
Quote from: Zog from Margo on June 12, 2024, 08:42:32 AM
https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/1800878863180071157
That interview is so good.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 12, 2024, 08:58:29 AM
That interview is so good.
Tyler was great. Andy Katz was too.
It is going to be very difficult for Shaka to top what he did with Kolek:
++ Look at an average A-10 shooting guard and envision that he could become a top Big East PG.
++ Successfully recruit him.
++ Build his confidence during and after a sometimes rocky first season at MU.
++ Develop both his talent and leadership to the point where TK became one of the best players in the country.
Quote from: MU82 on June 12, 2024, 09:12:02 AM
It is going to be very difficult for Shaka to top what he did with Kolek:
++ Look at an average A-10 shooting guard and envision that he could become a top Big East PG.
++ Successfully recruit him.
;)
++ Build his confidence during and after a sometimes rocky first season at MU.
++ Develop both his talent and leadership to the point where TK became one of the best players in the country.
Exactly why we need transfers!
They have already proven themselves....Shaka cant do it again! ;)
Quote from: Jockey on June 09, 2024, 01:13:35 PM
Bucks: Carlton Carrrington - if he is still available.
Some interesting things from Jonathan Givony at ESPN. Oso has dropped to #57 prospect. But I don't think that is an issue. Only certain teams will want him anyway. I think a good comparison might be Kyle Anderson who has had a long NBA career so far.
The NBA doesn't look kindly on traditional low post centers. 6 months ago, Clingan and Edey were both seen as mid-2nd rounders. Givony now has Clingan as #3 prospect and Edey at #16.
Kyle Anderson, the guy who played point guard in college?
Quote from: MU82 on June 12, 2024, 09:12:02 AM
It is going to be very difficult for Shaka to top what he did with Kolek:
++ Look at an average A-10 shooting guard and envision that he could become a top Big East PG.
++ Successfully recruit him.
++ Build his confidence during and after a sometimes rocky first season at MU.
++ Develop both his talent and leadership to the point where TK became one of the best players in the country.
Generally agree, but Kolek was a starter and the freshman of the year in his conference - so already on a pretty good trajectory.
Suns taking a hard look on TyKo. Budenholzer is Suns new coach.
https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2024/06/16/suns-nba-draft-rumors-tyler-kolek/
The Ringer's latest has TK all the way up to Miami at #15.
Riley all in on annoying white kids with Wisconsin connections.
Oso not in their draft. Rico rejoices.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 09, 2024, 07:04:21 PM
That he doesn't get drafted? I will.
Can't wait for all the "Oso should have stayed another year and developed" posts....
Nah, stunk up the post season, major. Cost himself mucho dinero, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 19, 2024, 06:58:22 PM
Nah, stunk up the post season, major. Cost himself mucho dinero, aina?
Not really how NBA teams determine who they're going to pay millions of dollars to.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 19, 2024, 06:30:31 PM
The Ringer's latest has TK all the way up to Miami at #15.
Riley all in on annoying white kids with Wisconsin connections.
Oso not in their draft. Rico rejoices.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft
Interesting to see Kolek this high. Pairing him with JFB would be pretty awesome
(...if he sticks around in Miami).
Could the Knicks at 25 be a floor? Would feel more confident in saying that if Kolek has a green room invite.
KOC is always unreasonably high on college prospects.
I can't see TyKo falling below #22
Quote from: Pakuni on June 19, 2024, 06:30:31 PM
The Ringer's latest has TK all the way up to Miami at #15.
Riley all in on annoying white kids with Wisconsin connections.
Oso not in their draft. Rico rejoices.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft
Hahahaha! Suck it, Oso!
Quote from: Pakuni on June 19, 2024, 06:30:31 PM
The Ringer's latest has TK all the way up to Miami at #15.
Riley all in on annoying white kids with Wisconsin connections.
Oso not in their draft. Rico rejoices.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft
It'd be fun to see Tyler play with Jimmy.
New mock from The Athletic:
TK #22 to the Suns
Oso #46 to the Clips
And Donovan Clingan #1 overall.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5571609/2024/06/20/nba-mock-draft-hawks-donovan-clingan-bronny-james/
Quote from: Pakuni on June 20, 2024, 09:11:14 AM
New mock from The Athletic:
TK #22 to the Suns
Oso #46 to the Clips
And Donovan Clingan #1 overall.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5571609/2024/06/20/nba-mock-draft-hawks-donovan-clingan-bronny-james/
Boooooo
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 19, 2024, 06:58:22 PM
Nah, stunk up the post season, major. Cost himself mucho dinero, aina?
Reed Sheppard averaged 8.5 points, 4 assists, 1.5 rebounds, 2 steals, 0 blocks, and 2 turnovers in 2 postseason games (loss to TAMU in SEC quarterfinals, loss in first round to Oakland).
Really goes to show those NBA teams are locked in on your postseason performance as Reed is now projected to be picked...*checks notes*...3rd overall in this year's NBA Draft.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2024, 10:03:50 AM
Reed Sheppard averaged 8.5 points, 4 assists, 1.5 rebounds, 2 steals, 0 blocks, and 2 turnovers in 2 postseason games (loss to TAMU in SEC quarterfinals, loss in first round to Oakland).
Really goes to show those NBA teams are locked in on your postseason performance as Reed is now projected to be picked...*checks notes*...3rd overall in this year's NBA Draft.
Sports savvy
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2024, 10:03:50 AM
Reed Sheppard averaged 8.5 points, 4 assists, 1.5 rebounds, 2 steals, 0 blocks, and 2 turnovers in 2 postseason games (loss to TAMU in SEC quarterfinals, loss in first round to Oakland).
Really goes to show those NBA teams are locked in on your postseason performance as Reed is now projected to be picked...*checks notes*...3rd overall in this year's NBA Draft.
Guys at the top of the draft usually stay there regardless - scouts view them as elite. Guys in the 25-75 range (like Oso) are looked upon differently. Lottery tickets whose perceived value is volatile, things like tourney performance and combine measurables can move them up or down a lot. Both of Oso weren't good and his stock took a tumble.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 20, 2024, 06:42:36 PM
Guys at the top of the draft usually stay there regardless - scouts view them as elite. Guys in the 25-75 range (like Oso) are looked upon differently. Lottery tickets whose perceived value is volatile, things like tourney performance and combine measurables can move them up or down a lot. Both of Oso weren't good and his stock took a tumble.
At least you got half of what they look at right.
Oso's a short, thin center with short arms that can't shoot. His performance in the NCAA Tournament didn't change that.
Devin Carter was looked at as a mid to late first round pick, shot 43% from the field and 30% from 3 in the BET, missed the NCAA Tournament, and is now being projected in the top 10 of some Drafts. Why? Because he tested through the roof at the Combine.
Kel'el Ware was projected as an early second round pick, shot 10/34 and 0/2 from 3 in his 2 B1G Tourney games, didn't make the NCAA Tournament, and is now a potential lottery pick.
I could go on, but I think most reasonable people understand that NBA GMs aren't ignoring 3.9 years of a player's career because of what they did in a 5 game sample size.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2024, 06:45:17 PM
At least you got half of what they look at right.
Oso's a short, thin center with short arms that can't shoot. His performance in the NCAA Tournament didn't change that.
Devin Carter was looked at as a mid to late first round pick, shot 43% from the field and 30% from 3 in the BET, missed the NCAA Tournament, and is now being projected in the top 10 of some Drafts. Why? Because he tested through the roof at the Combine.
Nah, it was the tournament.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2024, 06:45:17 PM
I could go on, but I think most reasonable people understand that NBA GMs aren't ignoring 3.9 years of a player's career because of what they did in a 5 game sample size.
Actually I think most reasonable people understand that NBA GMs do totally ignore at least the first 3 years of a guy who is still playing college basketball as a senior.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 20, 2024, 07:41:52 PM
Actually I think most reasonable people understand that NBA GMs do totally ignore at least the first 3 years of a guy who is still playing college basketball as a senior.
I think seeing where they started to where they are 3 years later is actually pretty significant. But it is good you backed down from agreeing that Oso went from guaranteed millions to undrafted because of a few games he was dinged up in. Plenty of proof to disprove that theory over many Drafts.
Or Oso's stock didn't change with GM's and the " experts" who do the mocks didn't have any real intel (or insight) until after the combine?
Quote from: MuMark on June 20, 2024, 08:33:25 PM
Or Oso's stock didn't change with GM's and the " experts" who do the mocks didn't have any real intel (or insight) until after the combine?
Nope, it was the tournament
Anyone who believes Oso didn't crap da bed simply duzant know ball, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 20, 2024, 08:37:41 PM
Anyone who believes Oso didn't crap da bed simply duzant know ball, hey?
Anyone who believes the NBA drafts on 3 games in the tournament doesn't know ball, hey?
2023 tournament -
188 offensive rating against Vermont, 14 points on 7-8 shooting.
125 offensive rating against Sparty, 10 points on 4-6 shooting with 7 rebounds.
Did he crap da bed in those games or don't they count?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 20, 2024, 08:52:51 PM
Anyone who believes the NBA drafts on 3 games in the tournament doesn't know ball, hey?
2023 tournament -
188 offensive rating against Vermont, 14 points on 7-8 shooting.
125 offensive rating against Sparty, 10 points on 4-6 shooting with 7 rebounds.
Did he crap da bed in those games or don't they count?
Diener had 8 turnovers in his last NCAA game, but still got drafted Rico!
Neck size trumps all
Quote from: MUDPT on June 20, 2024, 09:44:28 PM
Diener had 8 turnovers in his last NCAA game, but still got drafted Rico!
That's different. He's a white guy from Wisconsin
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2024, 08:27:10 PM
I think seeing where they started to where they are 3 years later is actually pretty significant.
If you honestly think what Oso did as a freshman (nothing) or what TK did at George Mason has anything to do with where they'll be drafted I think you're nuts. If you're just defending an indefensible statement, ok then.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2024, 01:51:06 PM
If you honestly think what Oso did as a freshman (nothing) or what TK did at George Mason has anything to do with where they'll be drafted I think you're nuts. If you're just defending an indefensible statement, ok then.
Like I said, seeing how a player improved (or didn't) is definitely something a team looks at.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 21, 2024, 01:52:56 PM
Like I said, seeing how a player improved (or didn't) is definitely something a team looks at.
C'mon. Guys who don't enter the draft until after their 4th year of college basketball have by definition improved or else they wouldn't be considered. But as 22, 23 or 24 year old potential rookies what they did at 18 or 19 is totally meaningless. How they played as seniors and how they finished? That, otoh, counts for something.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2024, 02:05:31 PM
C'mon. Guys who don't enter the draft until after their 4th year of college basketball have by definition improved or else they wouldn't be considered. But as 22, 23 or 24 year old potential rookies what they did at 18 or 19 is totally meaningless. How they played as seniors and how they finished? That, otoh, counts for something.
How they finished? In the tournament? When he was hurt? I doubt that has much impact at all.
Scouts watch guys all season........they aren't stupid enough to elevate a few games in the NCAA Tournament over a full body of work.
It's not that those games don't matter........it's that they are just a piece of the overall puzzle.......draft combine performance is much more impactful than 1 or 2 bad games in the post season.
Ps People that say others " don't know ball" usually couldn't tell the difference between a basketball and a baseball........Confucius
Quote from: MuMark on June 21, 2024, 05:37:48 PM
Scouts watch guys all season........they aren't stupid enough to elevate a few games in the NCAA Tournament over a full body of work.
It's not that those games don't matter........it's that they are just a piece of the overall puzzle.......draft combine performance is much more impactful than 1 or 2 bad games in the post season.
Ps People that say others " don't know ball" usually couldn't tell the difference between a basketball and a baseball........Confucius
Nailed it.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2024, 01:51:06 PM
If you honestly think what Oso did as a freshman (nothing) or what TK did at George Mason has anything to do with where they'll be drafted I think you're nuts. If you're just defending an indefensible statement, ok then.
It does matter, because it shows they are coachable. Kolek, in particular, has two elite skills, his shooting and his pick n roll play. When he arrived here, he shot poorly and completely reworked his shot and he was mediocre in pick n roll and became the best in the country.
That demonstrates his third elite skill, which is how receptive he is to coaching. That is obviously something that matters.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 21, 2024, 07:43:01 PM
It does matter, because it shows they are coachable. Kolek, in particular, has two elite skills, his shooting and his pick n roll play. When he arrived here, he shot poorly and completely reworked his shot and he was mediocre in pick n roll and became the best in the country.
That demonstrates his third elite skill, which is how receptive he is to coaching. That is obviously something that matters.
A senior who is receptive to coaching is not an "elite skill". It's the norm. Next year we'll have 3 seniors on our roster - Stevie, Kam and Jop. They're all receptive to coaching. If they weren't they wouldn't still be here.
You're grasping at straws to make a point that doesn't exist.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2024, 09:16:01 PM
A senior who is receptive to coaching is not an "elite skill". It's the norm. Next year we'll have 3 seniors on our roster - Stevie, Kam and Jop. They're all receptive to coaching. If they weren't they wouldn't still be here.
You're grasping at straws to make a point that doesn't exist.
Lol I'd love to see poll results from high major head coaches on whether seniors are receptive to coaching or not.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 21, 2024, 09:21:32 PM
Lol I'd love to see poll results from high major head coaches on whether seniors are receptive to coaching or not.
Seniors who have been in a program with a coach for 4 years vs freshman or sophomores looking for the early exit to the NBA - who's more receptive to coaching?
Duh
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2024, 09:30:30 PM
Seniors who have been in a program with a coach for 4 years vs freshman or sophomores looking for the early exit to the NBA - who's more receptive to coaching?
Duh
Why do you assume that talented players who leave for the NBA aren't receptive to coaching?
Oso played 8 games against Clingan and Edey the last two seasons. But the scouts will be more interested in games against DJ Burns and Eddie Lampkin?
Quote from: MUDPT on June 21, 2024, 09:49:28 PM
Oso played 8 games against Clingan and Edey the last two seasons. But the scouts will be more interested in games against DJ Burns and Eddie Lampkin?
If you are to believe some here, yes.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2024, 09:16:01 PM
A senior who is receptive to coaching is not an "elite skill". It's the norm. Next year we'll have 3 seniors on our roster - Stevie, Kam and Jop. They're all receptive to coaching. If they weren't they wouldn't still be here.
You're grasping at straws to make a point that doesn't exist.
So you would say that Tyler's improvement from GMU/MU Year One is the norm? I look forward to our five All-American roster next year then.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 21, 2024, 09:46:34 PM
Why do you assume that talented players who leave for the NBA aren't receptive to coaching?
I think it's logical that players who need 4 years of college to have any shot at the NBA would be more receptive to coaching than those preordained for the league marking time for a year.
Do you believe it's an "elite skill" to be receptive to coaching?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2024, 07:04:19 AM
I think it's logical that players who need 4 years of college to have any shot at the NBA would be more receptive to coaching than those preordained for the league marking time for a year.
Do you believe it's an "elite skill" to be receptive to coaching?
That's not logical at all. I don't think there is much correlation (if any) between being talented enough to make the NBA and being receptive to coaching.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 07:16:06 AM
That's not logical at all. I don't think there is much correlation (if any) between being talented enough to make the NBA and being receptive to coaching.
Oso blew it in the tournament. Everything accomplished before then was pointless. It's a terrible shame but that's how the cookie crumbles. He should have comeback and grown his arms longer
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 07:16:06 AM
That's not logical at all. I don't think there is much correlation (if any) between being talented enough to make the NBA and being receptive to coaching.
I 100% disagree.All in for 4 years is much different than marking time and passing through.
You never answered my question.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2024, 03:14:58 PM
I 100% disagree.All in for 4 years is much different than marking time and passing through.
You never answered my question.
Disagree all you want. You make a habit out of being wrong. Another entry on a long list.
And I answered your question.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 03:32:24 PM
Disagree all you want. You make a habit out of being wrong. Another entry on a long list.
And I answered your question.
Liar
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2024, 03:34:30 PM
Liar
Nope
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 07:16:06 AM
I don't think there is much correlation (if any) between being talented enough to make the NBA and being receptive to coaching.
I await your apology.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 03:37:42 PM
Nope
I await your apology.
? Brew stated that being receptive to coaching was an "elite skill". I think that's absurd. I asked you if you thought being receptive to coaching was an elite skill. You never answered the question.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2024, 05:56:10 PM
? Brew stated that being receptive to coaching was an "elite skill". I think that's absurd. I asked you if you thought being receptive to coaching was an elite skill. You never answered the question.
<sigh>
Yes I did. I the quote I provided.
Didn't realize the English language was so tough for you.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2024, 05:56:10 PM
? Brew stated that being receptive to coaching was an "elite skill". I think that's absurd. I asked you if you thought being receptive to coaching was an elite skill. You never answered the question.
You are misstating what I said. I said it was an elite skill of Tyler's. Not everyone who is coached is as good as Tyler is at being coached. If you can't see the difference his ability to respond to coaching had on his development here, you must not have tuned in the past three years, because it was very obvious.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 22, 2024, 06:47:43 PM
You are misstating what I said.
Lenny? Misstating what you said?
Shocking.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 05:58:20 PM
<sigh>
Yes I did. I the quote I provided.
Didn't realize the English language was so tough for you.
No you didn't, no it isn't - Chico.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 22, 2024, 06:47:43 PM
You are misstating what I said. I said it was an elite skill of Tyler's. Not everyone who is coached is as good as Tyler is at being coached. If you can't see the difference his ability to respond to coaching had on his development here, you must not have tuned in the past three years, because it was very obvious.
Somebody mistakes what somebody said? Amazing! Yet that is SOP on Scoop
Quote from: willie warrior on June 22, 2024, 08:46:28 PM
Somebody mistakes what somebody said? Amazing! Yet that is SOP on Scoop
You tell 'em, Dung!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2024, 03:14:58 PM
I 100% disagree.All in for 4 years is much different than marking time and passing through.
You never answered my question.
That's a pretty lazy stereotype.
Just because a kid has the talent to jump to the pros early doesn't mean he's less committed to his college program or "marking time."
Quote from: Pakuni on June 23, 2024, 08:33:49 AM
That's a pretty lazy stereotype.
Just because a kid has the talent to jump to the pros early doesn't mean he's less committed to his college program or "marking time."
Yep. Carmelo Anthony "marked time" at Syracuse and Anthony Davis "passed through" Kentucky while winning their coaches their only national titles. Stephon Castle sure worked hard last season for a guy just marking his time at UConn. Etc etc etc.
From The Athletic:
Tyler Kolek | 6-1 guard | 23 years old | Marquette
College assistant coach No. 1 (his team played Marquette): Unbelievable worker. I did not know he would turn out like this. I think the stars aligned, getting a guy like Oso (Ighadaro) next to him, and a coach like Shaka (Smart). He's been incredible.
College assistant coach No. 2 (his team played Marquette): Obviously he's smart, sees the play before the play. He's not a great shooter, I don't care what they say. He's not a great shooter. But he can run a team. I don't get the Steve Nash comparisons. But, good player. Tough, one of those tough White guys that can hoop with the brothers all day. He's just smart. Heady. Not overly athletic. But he's tough. Good player.
Eastern Conference executive No. 2: I'm not as high on him as others. But I see what they see. You can't count him out. It's like TJ (McConnell). Nobody thought he'd make the league, and he made the league. And Kolek is the same type of guy. But the difference is, TJ is quick, and Kolek is not quick. I wouldn't bet against him, but I'm not as high on him.
Quote from: MU82 on June 23, 2024, 08:55:05 AM
Yep. Carmelo Anthony "marked time" at Syracuse
Yes he did. He's a great example of a guy with unbelievable talent who never became the complete player he could have been.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 23, 2024, 11:21:29 AM
Yes he did. He's a great example of a guy with unbelievable talent who never became the complete player he could have been.
Seems being coachable is a skill.
It's conceivable 3 BEast players will be taken in the lottery. I'm very unsure about Carter as a pro but the scouts really like him. Tyko going to a formidable team is ideal.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 23, 2024, 11:21:29 AM
Yes he did. He's a great example of a guy with unbelievable talent who never became the complete player he could have been.
lol. He was named one of the top 75 players in league history.
You should have quit this silly argument long ago. You could have simply moved on like it never really happened. Yet here you are digging your hole deeper and deeper.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 23, 2024, 11:21:29 AM
Yes he did. He's a great example of a guy with unbelievable talent who never became the complete player he could have been.
He's nearly a lock to be a first-ballot hall of famer, but a few more years at Syracuse and he'd really have made it in the world.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 23, 2024, 12:17:44 PM
He's nearly a lock to be a first-ballot hall of famer, but a few more years at Syracuse and he'd really have made it in the world.
Think about all the zone defensive concepts he could have been taught. Smh.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 23, 2024, 12:18:34 PM
Think about all the zone defensive concepts he could have been taught. Smh.
Yeah, instead he had to play under that know-nothing George Karl.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 23, 2024, 11:21:29 AM
Yes he did. He's a great example of a guy with unbelievable talent who never became the complete player he could have been.
Ha! I like that you didn't use teal. Well done!
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2024, 10:03:50 AM
Reed Sheppard averaged 8.5 points, 4 assists, 1.5 rebounds, 2 steals, 0 blocks, and 2 turnovers in 2 postseason games (loss to TAMU in SEC quarterfinals, loss in first round to Oakland).
Really goes to show those NBA teams are locked in on your postseason performance as Reed is now projected to be picked...*checks notes*...3rd overall in this year's NBA Draft.
a strong post-season can artificially elevate a player's draft stock (call it the Joe Alexander factor) but a mediocre showing won't really negatively impact a player's draft position (e.g. Jason Richardson).
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 24, 2024, 08:56:29 AM
a strong post-season can artificially elevate a player's draft stock (call it the Joe Alexander factor) but will rarely decrease a player's draft position (e.g. Jason Richardson).
I go back further to the "Jack Givens" factor .......
Why in the world in the 1st round of the draft Wednesday and the 2nd rd Thursday afternoon? Bizarre.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 24, 2024, 05:24:07 PM
Why in the world in the 1st round of the draft Wednesday and the 2nd rd Thursday afternoon? Bizarre.
200 channels, 24 hours a day. Content is needed.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 24, 2024, 05:24:07 PM
Why in the world in the 1st round of the draft Wednesday and the 2nd rd Thursday afternoon? Bizarre.
So it doesn't conflict with the Presidential debate I would guess.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 24, 2024, 08:54:23 PM
So it doesn't conflict with the Presidential debate I would guess.
That, and the second round has never garnered much attention late at night. Might actually draw more eyes or media interest in the afternoon. In any event, round 2 is not much to talk about.
The Athletic's John Hollinger doesn't do a mock draft, but he has a "big board" of rankings. In his final pre-draft top 75, he has ...
++ Oso ranked #19, first player mentioned in the "Sleepers" category.
++ TK ranked #36, listed in the "Second-Rounders Who May Make It" category.
Latest from The Athletic:
Kolek #22 to the Suns, then traded to the Knicks.
The Knicks have been interested in Kolek throughout the season, league sources tell The Athletic, and it makes sense why. Even with the emergence of Miles McBride as a tremendous backup guard on a bargain deal, the Knicks were often one shot creator short in the playoffs and forced to rely on Jalen Brunson to do everything at all times. In Kolek, the team could envision a long-term backup point guard who might be able to reduce the wear and tear on Brunson.
Oso #46 to the Clips.
Given how many of us have compared Kolek to Brunson, that makes a ton of sense.
Quote from: MU82 on June 25, 2024, 09:10:20 AM
The Athletic's John Hollinger doesn't do a mock draft, but he has a "big board" of rankings. In his final pre-draft top 75, he has ...
++ Oso ranked #19, first player mentioned in the "Sleepers" category.
++ TK ranked #36, listed in the "Second-Rounders Who May Make It" category.
Is this supposed to concern anyone?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 25, 2024, 11:42:35 AM
Is this supposed to concern anyone?
It's one observer's opinion. If you choose to be concerned by it, that's up to you.
Kolek will not get past the Knicks or Celtics in the first round.
Quote from: burger on June 25, 2024, 01:59:12 PM
Kolek will not get past the Knicks or Celtics in the first round.
Agreed.
And no one will be watching the 2nd Rd on Thursday. For the kids that are borderline late 1st/early 2nd this is a terrible decision by the NBA.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 25, 2024, 07:10:53 PM
Agreed.
And no one will be watching the 2nd Rd on Thursday. For the kids that are borderline late 1st/early 2nd this is a terrible decision by the NBA.
Uh...why? Will they not be home from work or something?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 25, 2024, 07:14:22 PM
Uh...why? Will they not be home from work or something?
Yeah, don't think many bothered with the late night 2nd round picks in past years?
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 25, 2024, 07:20:30 PM
Yeah, don't think many bothered with the late night 2nd round picks in past years?
Exactly. When the talking heads are still mostly talking about the first round anyway.
Feel a bit bad for Oso, I'm sure he was ready to move on but falling to late second round when you still have eligibility is rough. Wonder what the opportune cost will end up being.
Why? He has a degree and an MBA. There are no classes left at MU for him. He will be fine.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 25, 2024, 08:07:47 PM
Feel a bit bad for Oso, I'm sure he was ready to move on but falling to late second round when you still have eligibility is rough. Wonder what the opportune cost will end up being.
Mods have really added some cool features! Didn't realize you could post from the future now.
But seriously do you think an extra year of school was going to help him? He has two degrees. He will earn a lot of money playing basketball somewhere.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 25, 2024, 08:07:47 PM
Feel a bit bad for Oso, I'm sure he was ready to move on but falling to late second round when you still have eligibility is rough. Wonder what the opportune cost will end up being.
He will be fine......worst case for him is a 2 way deal......
There's also this weird notion that players only develop in college.
Oso is more likely to become an NBA player by making basketball a full-time job with the benefit of professional coaching than he would with another season at Marquette.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 25, 2024, 08:07:47 PM
Feel a bit bad for Oso, I'm sure he was ready to move on but falling to late second round when you still have eligibility is rough. Wonder what the opportune cost will end up being.
He was ready to move.....he said so early on.
Eligibility smeligibilty. He was leaving.
Glad he'll bomb out
Quote from: Pakuni on June 25, 2024, 08:25:18 PM
There's also this weird notion that players only develop in college.
Oso is more likely to become an NBA player by making basketball a full-time job with the benefit of professional coaching than he would with another season at Marquette.
Dont know that the coaching is all that much better in the pros compared to high Div I, probably more about all the extra available time? College coaches have restrictions on time spent with the players.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 25, 2024, 08:56:32 PM
Dont know that the coaching is all that much better in the pros compared to high Div I, probably more about all the extra available time? College coaches have restrictions on time spent with the players.
Oso has improved significantly every season at MU. I think your point is quite fair Nuke.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 25, 2024, 08:25:18 PM
There's also this weird notion that players only develop in college.
Oso is more likely to become an NBA player by making basketball a full-time job with the benefit of professional coaching than he would with another season at Marquette.
Does anyone have stats showing the number of borderline draft picks who stay at school versus those who stay in the draft, in terms of percentage who make the NBA?
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 25, 2024, 08:56:32 PM
Dont know that the coaching is all that much better in the pros compared to high Div I, probably more about all the extra available time? College coaches have restrictions on time spent with the players.
NBA coaches are way better at getting players ready for the NBA.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2024, 07:49:40 AM
NBA coaches are way better at getting players ready for the NBA.
If Oso had stayed in school, Shaka could have improved his wingspan
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 26, 2024, 07:43:31 AM
Does anyone have stats showing the number of borderline draft picks who stay at school versus those who stay in the draft, in terms of percentage who make the NBA?
Yes, but if I tell you what it is, I'd have to kill you.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2024, 07:49:40 AM
NBA coaches are way better at getting players ready for the NBA.
Of course, but having a coach get you ready for the NBA is different that being able to get a first round deal by blowing up in college. Not talking about Oso, but just in general. Because if the statement that G league coaches can get you better prepped for the NBA, then nobody should stay in college after year 1.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 26, 2024, 08:03:19 AM
Of course, but having a coach get you ready for the NBA is different that being able to get a first round deal by blowing up in college. Not talking about Oso, but just in general. Because if the statement that G league coaches can get you better prepped for the NBA, then nobody should stay in college after year 1.
Any improvement Oso sees with one additional year at Marquette would be marginal at best. He's not suddenly going to start dropping threes.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2024, 08:11:59 AM
Any improvement Oso sees with one additional year at Marquette would be marginal at best. He's not suddenly going to start dropping threes.
Wasn't talking about Oso. Just the blanket statement that Gleague , or other pro coaching will best prepare you for the NBA.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2024, 08:11:59 AM
Any improvement Oso sees with one additional year at Marquette would be marginal at best. He's not suddenly going to start dropping threes.
Agreed. BTW, did we ever find out what happened the last few weeks of the season with him? He was clearly not himself and his play suffered (draft projections started falling too). Not saying he or Shaka owe us any information, just curious what happened.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 26, 2024, 08:17:50 AM
Wasn't talking about Oso. Just the blanket statement that Gleague , or other pro coaching will best prepare you for the NBA.
I never mentioned G-League or other pro coaching.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2024, 08:38:12 AM
I never mentioned G-League or other pro coaching.
Well, you are getting "NBA coaching" if you have an NBA contract, so that's not what the point is. The argument is whether staying an extra year versus going pro will get you to the NBA.
Today's word of the day:
non sequitur
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 26, 2024, 08:48:50 AM
Well, you are getting "NBA coaching" if you have an NBA contract, so that's not what the point is. The argument is whether staying an extra year versus going pro will get you to the NBA.
In this instance, staying another year in school for Oso would have been pointless.
There is nothing this staff could do or should do to help his NBA chances at the expense of the team.
The thing that holds Oso back is his physical limitations. That isn't changing at Marquette
Quote from: tower912 on June 25, 2024, 08:11:49 PM
Why? He has a degree and an MBA. There are no classes left at MU for him. He will be fine.
1) money in the table. I honestly don't know (as I mentioned opportune cost) but highly doubt a late second round pick is making what he could have in NIL returning.
2) general fan environment, there isn't a g league team that's competing with our atmosphere and amenities
3) long distance relationship. I'm team Liza Karlen and Oso having a super baby that brings Marquette to glory some day.
But essentially if pitch ask me "for minimal money and to play in front of nobody, you get to be away from the girl you dated for three years of college, and be coached by subpar coaches. But you may get called up to the NBA!" I'd personally pass but that's just me.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 25, 2024, 08:25:18 PM
There's also this weird notion that players only develop in college.
Oso is more likely to become an NBA player by making basketball a full-time job with the benefit of professional coaching than he would with another season at Marquette.
Never mentioned anything about development? I agree for the most part that being last man on an NBA bench is better for development. I'm not sold on that being true in the GLeague as there's at least one subpar coach coaching an MU guy (again) in that league.
I actually think Oso being forced to take over as the #1 guy at MU could have been helpful in his development.
I doubt it's going to happen, but I will be exceedingly angry if Tyko does not go 15-30 tonight and has to wait until tomorrow to be picked.
A player can get excellent coaching and can develop well in college. A player can get excellent coaching and can develop well in the pros.
To my knowledge, there are no accepted studies proving that one is better than the other, although one might be better than the other for each case.
And even for a particular athlete, one level could be better than the other at a certain stage of his or her career, while the other level could be better at another stage.
For example, I think it's quite reasonable to say that being at Marquette for the 2022-23 and 2023-24 seasons was the best way for Oso to develop into a pro-worthy player, and that leaving Marquette for the professional ranks will be the best way to continue his development.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 26, 2024, 07:43:31 AM
Does anyone have stats showing the number of borderline draft picks who stay at school versus those who stay in the draft, in terms of percentage who make the NBA?
Going strictly by anecdotal evidence, Dominic James was perceived as a possible draft pick after his freshman year, but stayed and didn't get drafted, so staying is a mistake and hurts your draft stock. Vander Blue was perceived as unlikely be be drafted, and wasn't drafted after leaving early, so leaving early is a mistake and hurts your draft stock.
Ultimately, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 26, 2024, 09:21:56 AM
Going strictly by anecdotal evidence, Dominic James was perceived as a possible draft pick after his freshman year, but stayed and didn't get drafted, so staying is a mistake and hurts your draft stock. Vander Blue was perceived as unlikely be be drafted, and wasn't drafted after leaving early, so leaving early is a mistake and hurts your draft stock.
Ultimately, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I think each situation is entirely different.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 09:10:48 AM
I doubt it's going to happen, but I will be exceedingly angry if Tyko does not go 15-30 tonight and has to wait until tomorrow to be picked.
If it happens, go cow tipping. Great anger release
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 09:25:55 AM
I think each situation is entirely different.
I disagree. Every situation is the same and can be boiled down to those two anecdotal incidents. No matter what you do, you're wrong.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 09:08:51 AM
I actually think Oso being forced to take over as the #1 guy at MU could have been helpful in his development.
How?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 26, 2024, 09:04:17 AM
1) money in the table. I honestly don't know (as I mentioned opportune cost) but highly doubt a late second round pick is making what he could have in NIL returning.
2) general fan environment, there isn't a g league team that's competing with our atmosphere and amenities
3) long distance relationship. I'm team Liza Karlen and Oso having a super baby that brings Marquette to glory some day.
But essentially if pitch ask me "for minimal money and to play in front of nobody, you get to be away from the girl you dated for three years of college, and be coached by subpar coaches. But you may get called up to the NBA!" I'd personally pass but that's just me.
His girlfriend no longer attends Marquette anyway.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 26, 2024, 10:48:17 AM
His girlfriend no longer attends Marquette anyway.
He should've come back to school, but transferred to Notre Dame. That would make the critics happy, I'm sure.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 26, 2024, 09:08:42 AM
Never mentioned anything about development? I agree for the most part that being last man on an NBA bench is better for development. I'm not sold on that being true in the GLeague as there's at least one subpar coach coaching an MU guy (again) in that league.
Which is why I didn't directly respond to your post.
But I could easily find a dozen and more posts here over the years about how players should stay in college to develop.
And development is a lot more than coaching.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 26, 2024, 09:04:17 AM
1) money in the table. I honestly don't know (as I mentioned opportune cost) but highly doubt a late second round pick is making what he could have in NIL returning.
2) general fan environment, there isn't a g league team that's competing with our atmosphere and amenities
3) long distance relationship. I'm team Liza Karlen and Oso having a super baby that brings Marquette to glory some day.
But essentially if pitch ask me "for minimal money and to play in front of nobody, you get to be away from the girl you dated for three years of college, and be coached by subpar coaches. But you may get called up to the NBA!" I'd personally pass but that's just me.
Of the 26 second-round picks that signed a contract last year (i.e. didn't stay overseas), 16 of them got guaranteed money. Twelve of those 16 got multiple years guaranteed.
I'd be very surprised if a Marquette NIL deal matches one, much less 2+, years of NBA salary.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 26, 2024, 11:01:21 AM
Of the 26 second-round picks that signed a contract last year (i.e. didn't stay overseas), 16 of them got guaranteed money. Twelve of those 16 got multiple years guaranteed.
I'd be very surprised if a Marquette NIL deal matches one, much less 2+, years of NBA salary.
NIL can't compete with real NBA salaries but blows the G-League salaries out of the water.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 26, 2024, 11:08:20 AM
NIL can't compete with real NBA salaries but blows the G-League salaries out of the water.
Since I'm not a big NBA contract knower, what happens when a player is drafted but spends time down in the G-League? Does he get paid NBA money, or G-League money? For example, Omax played like 24 games in the G-League, was he paid his NBA salary for that time?
Quote from: jficke13 on June 26, 2024, 11:16:14 AM
Since I'm not a big NBA contract knower, what happens when a player is drafted but spends time down in the G-League? Does he get paid NBA money, or G-League money? For example, Omax played like 24 games in the G-League, was he paid his NBA salary for that time?
As a first round pick, O-Max is paid his NBA salary no matter what.
It's different for 2 way contracts. They get paid a lower rate for G-League and a prorated amount of the NBA league minimum when they are "called up" to the NBA roster.
If they surpass a certain amount of games, they have to either be converted to an NBA contract or released. (I forget the exact number but the limit is about 40 or so games.)
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 26, 2024, 11:26:52 AM
As a first round pick, O-Max is paid his NBA salary no matter what.
It's different for 2 way contracts. They get paid a lower rate for G-League and a prorated amount of the NBA league minimum when they are "called up" to the NBA roster.
If they surpass a certain amount of games, they have to either be converted to an NBA contract or released. (I forget the exact number but the limit is about 40 or so games.)
Is a guy who's picked, say 45th, and spends the majority of the season in the G-league considred on a 2-way contract?
I think Oso made the right decision and hope he is drafted earlier than some are expecting. That said, I think Oso might have had a very, very nice NIL deal if he stayed at MU this year.
Quote from: jficke13 on June 26, 2024, 11:33:59 AM
Is a guy who's picked, say 45th, and spends the majority of the season in the G-league considred on a 2-way contract?
It depends on the contract. But it's not uncommon for 2nd round picks to get 2 way contracts, especially someone picked 45th or later.
Usually the top 40 get an NBA contract with some guaranteed money.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 26, 2024, 11:08:20 AM
NIL can't compete with real NBA salaries but blows the G-League salaries out of the water.
If you're playing on a G-League contract or two-way deal and spend most of your season in the G-League, sure.
But if you're on a guaranteed NBA deal, you get paid either way.
Quote from: jficke13 on June 26, 2024, 11:33:59 AM
Is a guy who's picked, say 45th, and spends the majority of the season in the G-league considred on a 2-way contract?
There are contracts specifically designated as two-way deals. But, unless I'm mistaken (which never happens), if you sign a guaranteed NBA deal, you get paid either way.
And Oso wasn't going to improve his draft stock staying in school. May as well get started on his pro career, even if it comes with a one time dip in earnings compared to what he would get with NIL. It just seemed like he was ready to move on regardless.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 26, 2024, 10:48:17 AM
His girlfriend no longer attends Marquette anyway.
Well yeah her BF and coach left her. I'd leave too... not to ND but somewhere.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 26, 2024, 11:01:21 AM
Of the 26 second-round picks that signed a contract last year (i.e. didn't stay overseas), 16 of them got guaranteed money. Twelve of those 16 got multiple years guaranteed.
I'd be very surprised if a Marquette NIL deal matches one, much less 2+, years of NBA salary.
Well yeah of course 1 yr doesn't match 2 years lol. The question would be would 1 yr NIL > yr 1 in salary then would the theoretical year 1 rookie salary + NIL > 2 years rookie salary.
Here are theoretical numbers: if he makes 300k over the next two years from GLeague, but yr one is 100k. because rookie salary, If he can get >100k in NIL then he beats that in yr 1, so staying is more financially prudent in the near term. Then the next comp would be could he still hit that same 100k rookie salary after next year (I'd guess he could), then could he hit >200k this year with NIL so ultimately after 2 years he's still making the same or more. if he could then it'd be more financially prudent to have stayed over 2 years. Given what numbers were coming out last year I'd guess he would've been able to hit that >200 mark.
I think Oso getting drafted is going to depend on a team's confidence in improving his shot. Based on his measurements, he won't be a big rim protector. Maybe a team sees a potential Brook Lopez improvement in shooting.
One thing is I don't think anyone questions that Oso has the work ethic to improve.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 26, 2024, 11:54:35 AM
There are contracts specifically designated as two-way deals. But, unless I'm mistaken (which never happens), if you sign a guaranteed NBA deal, you get paid either way.
Affirmative. Thanks.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 26, 2024, 11:54:35 AM
There are contracts specifically designated as two-way deals. But, unless I'm mistaken (which never happens), if you sign a guaranteed NBA deal, you get paid either way.
Correct. It depends on the contract structure, which can vary quite a bit.
Some examples from last year:
40th pick
Maxwell Lewis
4 year, $7.6 million ($3.1 million guaranteed)
41st pick
Amari Bailey
1 year, just shy of $560k
45th pick
GG Jackson
2-way contract (performed well and earned a new contract: 4 yr, $8.5 million with 3 yrs guaranteed)
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2024, 08:11:59 AM
Any improvement Oso sees with one additional year at Marquette would be marginal at best. He's not suddenly going to start dropping threes.
That's not what I was told one year ago!
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2024, 10:05:48 AM
How?
Not sure if you're just trying to troll Muggsy a little, but ...
At Marquette, he'd be playing major minutes for an NCAA tournament team whose coach trusted Oso so much that he was largely building both the offense and defense around Oso.
I am close to 100% certain that staying at Marquette for his junior year was beneficial to Oso's development. And I'm pretty sure it helped his further development last season, but maybe being in the G-League would have helped him in other ways. We'll never know.
I'm also certain that going pro now was the "right" decision for him, no matter where (or if) he's drafted. He declared early on that he was ready for the next challenge, he'd be leaving Marquette with 2 degrees, and he almost certainly wouldn't have helped his draft stock by staying. There really was no reason to return to MU except to make some Scoopers happy.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 26, 2024, 10:53:51 AM
He should've come back to school, but transferred to Notre Dame. That would make the critics happy, I'm sure.
She a grad transfer?
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 26, 2024, 12:03:05 PM
Correct. It depends on the contract structure, which can vary quite a bit.
Some examples from last year:
40th pick
Maxwell Lewis
4 year, $7.6 million ($3.1 million guaranteed)
41st pick
Amari Bailey
1 year, just shy of $560k
45th pick
GG Jackson
2-way contract (performed well and earned a new contract: 4 yr, $8.5 million with 3 yrs guaranteed)
Money well spent on Maxwell Lewis. Is he related to Lebron somehow?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 26, 2024, 11:56:20 AM
Well yeah her BF and coach left her. I'd leave too... not to ND but somewhere.
Well yeah of course 1 yr doesn't match 2 years lol. The question would be would 1 yr NIL > yr 1 in salary then would the theoretical year 1 rookie salary + NIL > 2 years rookie salary.
Here are theoretical numbers: if he makes 300k over the next two years from GLeague, but yr one is 100k. because rookie salary, If he can get >100k in NIL then he beats that in yr 1, so staying is more financially prudent in the near term. Then the next comp would be could he still hit that same 100k rookie salary after next year (I'd guess he could), then could he hit >200k this year with NIL so ultimately after 2 years he's still making the same or more. if he could then it'd be more financially prudent to have stayed over 2 years. Given what numbers were coming out last year I'd guess he would've been able to hit that >200 mark.
The rookie minimum next year is projected to be a little above $1.16 million.
Even if he gets no guarantee and instead signs a two-way contract, he'll earn well over $200K if he manages just to spend 15 games on the NBA roster next season. And the large majority of second-round picks - those who don't go to or stay overseas - spend 15+ games on the big club's roster.
Nothing is a sure thing, but Oso is making a pretty safe bet on himself here.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 23, 2024, 11:21:29 AM
Yes he did. He's a great example of a guy with unbelievable talent who never became the complete player he could have been.
??????
WHAT?
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 24, 2024, 08:56:29 AM
a strong post-season can artificially elevate a player's draft stock (call it the Joe Alexander factor) but a mediocre showing won't really negatively impact a player's draft position (e.g. Jason Richardson).
Oh man, I had blacked out Joe Alexander out of my memory.
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 12:40:54 PM
I'm also certain that going pro now was the "right" decision for him, no matter where (or if) he's drafted. He declared early on that he was ready for the next challenge, he'd be leaving Marquette with 2 degrees, and he almost certainly wouldn't have helped his draft stock by staying. There really was no reason to return to MU except to make some Scoopers happy.
(https://media.tenor.com/b59sQ8pZ-YwAAAAd/is-that-a-bad-thing-daniel-thrasher.gif)
The Athletic's final mock:
Kolek 24th to the Knicks, via Dallas.
Owning Finneran makes him an honorary Villanova player, I guess.
Oso 33rd to the Bucks.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5592856/2024/06/26/nba-mock-draft-2024-vecenie-hawks/
Quote from: Pakuni on June 26, 2024, 05:12:50 PM
The Athletic's final mock:
Kolek 24th to the Knicks, via Dallas.
Owning Finneran makes him an honorary Villanova player, I guess.
Oso 33rd to the Bucks.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5592856/2024/06/26/nba-mock-draft-2024-vecenie-hawks/
Ugh. Really hope Oso doesn't get drafted by the Bucks.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 26, 2024, 05:35:53 PM
Ugh. Really hope Oso doesn't get drafted by the Bucks.
I would be very surprised if the Bucks added a non shooter after drafting Jackson last year.
But we will see.
Oso-bama showing up to the draft in a tan suit. Smh
https://x.com/jackalbrightmu/status/1806098770553393226?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg
Came in a little late. Are Oso or Tyler at the draft? They named like 30 players after I started watching.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 26, 2024, 06:32:42 PM
Oso-bama showing up to the draft in a tan suit. Smh
https://x.com/jackalbrightmu/status/1806098770553393226?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg
Handsome fellow.
Hurley strutting around at draft. Castle goes 4.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 26, 2024, 07:37:29 PM
Hurley strutting around at draft. Castle goes 4.
Thanks, Dung
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 26, 2024, 07:00:35 PM
Came in a little late. Are Oso or Tyler at the draft? They named like 30 players after I started watching.
They are both there with Shaka and the other coaches per Ben Steele
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1806130308640555159?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Interesting. Three of first 6 guys drafted from France, including top 2 picks.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 26, 2024, 07:51:21 PM
Interesting. Three of first 6 guys drafted from France, including top 2 picks.
I'm boycotting France
Who can Edey guard? Memphis staff knows far more than I do...but I can't understand Edey in the NBA.
3 BE players drafted in the top 13. Geez, our league was weak this year.
::)
Quote from: avid1010 on June 26, 2024, 08:11:10 PM
Who can Edey guard? Memphis staff knows far more than I do...but I can't understand Edey in the NBA.
The question might be who can guard Edey? No one in college did 25/12 good stats!
Tyler had entered the ESPN best available scroll.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 26, 2024, 08:44:57 PM
The question might be who can guard Edey? No one in college did 25/12 good stats!
Everyone with a pulse
Quote from: avid1010 on June 26, 2024, 08:11:10 PM
Who can Edey guard? Memphis staff knows far more than I do...but I can't understand Edey in the NBA.
Edey actually fared reasonably well in agility drills at the Combine. His lane agility and shuttle run times were both better than Oso (as well as Clingan and DaRon Holmes). He's not a stiff.
:(
Ugh. The international players have changed the landscape.
Ugh, Tyler not drafted in first round. Thanks basketball know it alls, Muggsy probably going to take out all his frustration on an unsuspecting manatee now.
TK's reaction:
Two Colorado guys in the top 18 (Cody Williams at #10 and Tristan da Silva at #18)?
While attentive to and in agreement with the idea that 1 or 2 games does not give an indication of NBA potential, I was in Indy in March, and watched Colorado's two games (including against MU). Williams did not impress me. Da Silva did, reminding me of Francisco Garcia of Louisville back when.
Still, I'm impressed that the Buffs had two guys picked in the first round. And I love that we beat them to make it to the Sweet Sixteen with a couple of second rounders (hopefully!) and a bunch of nobodys.
MU!!
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 09:10:48 AM
I doubt it's going to happen, but I will be exceedingly angry if Tyko does not go 15-30 tonight and has to wait until tomorrow to be picked.
@Muggsy...this is a wellness check. You ok?
As Tyler would likely say, "F**k 'em"
Quote from: mug644 on June 26, 2024, 11:22:12 PM
@Muggsy...this is a wellness check. You ok?
As Tyler would likely say, "F**k 'em"
I'm not pleased at all mug but I've calmed down a bit. Your point is well taken.
Quote from: mug644 on June 26, 2024, 10:57:55 PM
Two Colorado guys in the top 18 (Cody Williams at #10 and Tristan da Silva at #18)?
While attentive to and in agreement with the idea that 1 or 2 games does not give an indication of NBA potential, I was in Indy in March, and watched Colorado's two games (including against MU). Williams did not impress me. Da Silva did, reminding me of Francisco Garcia of Louisville back when.
Still, I'm impressed that the Buffs had two guys picked in the first round. And I love that we beat them to make it to the Sweet Sixteen with a couple of second rounders (hopefully!) and a bunch of nobodys.
MU!!
I watched a number of Colorado games and never understood the hype surrounding Williams. I guess it's all about his length and potential, not actual performance.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 27, 2024, 07:46:29 AM
I watched a number of Colorado games and never understood the hype surrounding Williams. I guess it's all about his length and potential, not actual performance.
You don't say.
The Spurs/Wolves trade for Dilly at #8 literally makes no sense for San Antonio. A 2031 1st rounder and a pick swap? Totally bizarre.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 27, 2024, 09:09:33 AM
The Spurs/Wolves trade for Dilly at #8 literally makes no sense for San Antonio. A 2031 1st rounder and a pick swap? Totally bizarre.
The Spurs are loaded with draft picks the next few years. Putting one in down the line makes some sense.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 27, 2024, 07:46:29 AM
I watched a number of Colorado games and never understood the hype surrounding Williams. I guess it's all about his length and potential, not actual performance.
He was playing injured pretty much the entire season.
Shaka no longer needs to keep up with UConn, he needs to keep up with France.
Because the draft was 'weak', teams were drafting for size and potential. And by potential, they are thinking of positionless basketball. TKo is 6'1, has a defined position, and has likely maximized his potential. Of all the players drafted in the first round, how many can he guard?
Quote from: tower912 on June 27, 2024, 10:27:07 AM
Shaka no longer needs to keep up with UConn, he needs to keep up with France.
Because the draft was 'weak', teams were drafting for size and potential. And by potential, they are thinking of positionless basketball. TKo is 6'1, has a defined position, and has likely maximized his potential. Of all the players drafted in the first round, how many can he guard?
100%. For example, the Milwaukee Bucks drafted on potential looking 2-3 yrs down the road. AJ Johnson apparently had a great pre-draft and is not yet 20 yrs old, which sold the Bucks on the long view. If TKo goes in todays 2nd rd, it might actually be better for him in the bigger picture since the drafting team is more-so selecting on fit.
Heard Knicks changing their name to Villanova Knicks
Meanwhile some pundits are applauding Hurley for his strutting at the draft and using the draft as recruiting tool. Hurley sure knows how to market himself. Probably politicking for Knicks job when it opens.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 27, 2024, 11:10:30 AM
Heard Knicks changing their name to Villanova Knicks
Meanwhile some pundits are applauding Hurley for his strutting at the draft and using the draft as recruiting tool. Hurley sure knows how to market himself. Probably politicking for Knicks job when it opens.
Thanks, Dung
Meh. Thibs has 4-5 years before he wears out his welcome. Hurley will be older with another championship. Knicks may not be able to afford him.
Quote from: Viper on June 27, 2024, 11:03:48 AM
100%. For example, the Milwaukee Bucks drafted on potential looking 2-3 yrs down the road. AJ Johnson apparently had a great pre-draft and is not yet 20 yrs old, which sold the Bucks on the long view. If TKo goes in todays 2nd rd, it might actually be better for him in the bigger picture since the drafting team is more-so selecting on fit.
I said this elsewhere, but this is exactly what I think is happening in the NBA right now. Teams are taking big swings on potential in the first round, but are looking more at high floor, low ceiling guys in the second. And second round picks are getting better contracts than back in the day. I could see Kolek getting a three or four year deal with two years guaranteed.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 27, 2024, 11:24:54 AM
I said this elsewhere, but this is exactly what I think is happening in the NBA right now. Teams are taking big swings on potential in the first round, but are looking more at high floor, low ceiling guys in the second. And second round picks are getting better contracts than back in the day. I could see Kolek getting a three or four year deal with two years guaranteed.
Yep, agree.
Quote from: tower912 on June 27, 2024, 10:27:07 AM
Shaka no longer needs to keep up with UConn, he needs to keep up with France.
Because the draft was 'weak', teams were drafting for size and potential. And by potential, they are thinking of positionless basketball. TKo is 6'1, has a defined position, and has likely maximized his potential. Of all the players drafted in the first round, how many can he guard?
You may be right Tower, but it's a complete misnomer that players don't improve or their potential is maximized because they spent years in college Did Steve Nash improve in the NBA? Jalen Brunson? Curry? Wade? Butler? Lowry? Lillard? Sam Hauser? Austin Reaves? You can go on and on and on.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 27, 2024, 12:10:27 PM
Did Steve Nash improve in the NBA? Jalen Brunson? Curry? Wade? Butler? Lowry? Lillard? Sam Hauser? Austin Reaves?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.
Quote from: tower912 on June 27, 2024, 11:21:50 AM
Meh. Thibs has 4-5 years before he wears out his welcome. Hurley will be older with another championship. Knicks may not be able to afford him.
Thibs is gone if they don't
at least make the conference finals next season. Perhaps even if they don't win the East.
Knicks can afford anyone they want. Their estimated profit in 2023 was almost $170 million, which is more than twice that of 2/3rd of the league.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 27, 2024, 12:10:27 PM
You may be right Tower, but it's a complete misnomer that players don't improve or their potential is maximized because they spent years in college Did Steve Nash improve in the NBA? Jalen Brunson? Curry? Wade? Butler? Lowry? Lillard? Sam Hauser? Austin Reaves? You can go on and on and on.
I am pretty sure everyone improves when they get to the NBA
Quote from: tower912 on June 27, 2024, 11:21:50 AM
Meh. Thibs has 4-5 years before he wears out his welcome. Hurley will be older with another championship. Knicks may not be able to afford him.
James Dolan
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 27, 2024, 12:33:47 PM
I am pretty sure everyone improves when they get to the NBA
I'm not sure how one measures the improvement of Adam Morrison, LaRue Martin, Anthony Bennett, Jimmer Fredette, Darko Milicic, Josh Jackson, etc.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2024, 01:08:11 PM
I'm not sure how one measures the improvement of Adam Morrison, LaRue Martin, Anthony Bennett, Jimmer Fredette, Darko Milicic, Josh Jackson, etc.
I'm sure they all got better. Just not better enough.
I wouldn't dispute that each got better because I don't know. I'm certainly not "sure" each did.
Adam Morrison was a GREAT college basketball player; what did he get better at in the NBA? I don't know. Maybe a bunch of things but it still wasn't enough. Or maybe he regressed. Athletes do regress sometimes.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2024, 01:18:41 PM
I wouldn't dispute that each got better because I don't know. I'm certainly not "sure" each did.
Adam Morrison was a GREAT college basketball player; what did he get better at in the NBA? I don't know. Maybe a bunch of things but it still wasn't enough. Or maybe he regressed. Athletes do regress sometimes.
Yeah, athletes regress, but unless they're female gymnasts or get injured, it doesn't really happen in their early 20s.
Adam Morrison didn't become worse at basketball. He tore his ACL and lost what little athleticism he had. His basketball skill wasn't enough to make up for his athletic deficiencies by that point.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 01:27:18 PM
Yeah, athletes regress, but unless they're female gymnasts or get injured, it doesn't really happen in their early 20s.
Adam Morrison didn't become worse at basketball. He tore his ACL and lost what little athleticism he had. His basketball skill wasn't enough to make up for his athletic deficiencies by that point.
I had forgotten about Morrison tearing his ACL. I always thought his decline had to do with that mustache.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 01:27:18 PM
Yeah, athletes regress, but unless they're female gymnasts or get injured, it doesn't really happen in their early 20s.
Adam Morrison didn't become worse at basketball. He tore his ACL and lost what little athleticism he had. His basketball skill wasn't enough to make up for his athletic deficiencies by that point.
OK
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 01:12:31 PM
I'm sure they all got better. Just not better enough.
Wrong. Athletes in the early 20's can regress for a variety of reasons. You just conjured that out of thin air and are totally discounting the psychological and mental aspects of playing at the highest level.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 27, 2024, 03:15:05 PM
Wrong. Athletes in the early 20's can regress for a variety of reasons. You just conjured that out of thin air and are totally discounting the psychological and mental aspects of playing at the highest level.
Psychological AND mental?
Whoa.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 03:17:16 PM
Psychological AND mental?
Whoa.
Have you ever heard of Jordan Spieth?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 27, 2024, 03:18:17 PM
Have you ever heard of Jordan Spieth?
Golf is a completely different game
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 27, 2024, 03:18:17 PM
Have you ever heard of Jordan Spieth?
Golfers aren't athletes.
Are Kolek and Oso in the day 2 room for families?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2024, 03:18:39 PM
Golf is a completely different game
Is tennis completely different too? There are many examples.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 27, 2024, 03:23:27 PM
Is tennis completely different too? There are many examples.
Name some.
Quote from: marqfan22 on June 27, 2024, 03:22:38 PM
Are Kolek and Oso in the day 2 room for families?
Oso is in the green room. Tyler is off-site.
Seriously thought the Bucks were drafting Tyler. "tyler...smith" instead.
They didn't even show the pick!
"During the break Portland selected Tyler Kolek"
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 27, 2024, 03:34:16 PM
Genie Bouchard
Never that good and had a bunch of injuries, including a severe concussion she blames for her ensuing career struggles.
This format feels odd. Someone needs to pick Oso NOW!!
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 27, 2024, 03:44:23 PM
This format feels odd. Someone needs to pick Oso NOW!!
It's terrible. Go back to one night.
2012 Crowder picked 34, 2024 Tyler picked 34.
I'm betting Oso 55th
PHUCK yeah
Wow awesome for Oso. Wasn't feeling great about his chances but very cool he's going back home.
Great result for Oso. Reports of his demise much exaggerated.
Love where both TK and Oso are going. Both will have a chance.
It was tough seeing Oso sitting there, watching others get drafted. I cheered when they called his name.
ESPN's cyclical narrative around Bronny James is nothing short of nauseating. How does anybody watch this network?
ESPN still hasn't mentioned the three guys picked after Bronny aside from scrolls on the bottom of the screen.